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To: lepton
If a Fitzgerald replacement conducts the review and finds that Plames identity plausibly fits the criteria under the law, then proceed. If it does not plausibly fit, then nothing Libby said was relevant one way or another, as there was no investigation.

I'm trying to avoid putting words in your mouth, but I take that as "if Plame is not covert, then there should be no legal penalty for lying to investigators."

The main policy in this case is that courts very much do not want people to tell deliberate lies on the witness stand and, in general, take the view that defects in the steps that may bring witnesses to the stand are not adequate reason for tolerating the lies and foregoing punishment. A number of Supreme Court decisions reflect this general policy.

Thus, in Dennis v. United States, 384 U.S. 855 (1966), convictions for filing false non-Communist affidavits were sustained, the Court holding that it did not matter whether the underlying statute that required them violated the First Amendment. Id. at 867; see also Bryson v. United States, 396 U.S. 64, 72 (1969). Similarly, in United States v. Mandujano, 425 U.S. 564, 576, 584 (1976), and United States v. Wong, 431 U.S. 174, 176-78 (1977), the respective failures to give a grand jury witness a Miranda warning (in one case) or a warning as to the privilege against self-incrimination (in the other) were held not to excuse the subsequent perjury of the witness. Other cases are to the same effect.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=1st&navby=case&no=022276

The process you propose, that an investigator has to show all the other elements of the offense before making an accusation of perjury, would create an interesting game of "guts" between witnesses and investigators. A game where lying becomes a more viable option to witnesses, in all cases.

It is not my position that lying to the investigators is morally O.K. That is a different question from "illegal,"

Oh golly, I just assumed our discussion was on the legality, and not on the morality. "Okay" meaning that tehre would be no legal consequence, "lie and get away with it" sort of thing.

If a Fitzgerald replacement conducts the review and finds that Plames identity plausibly fits the criteria under the law, then proceed. If it does not plausibly fit, then nothing Libby said was relevant one way or another, as there was no investigation.

Yes, and what about the jail time of Miller, the forced testimony and all the legal costs incurred there? Libby's remedy being "case dismissed," what about Miller?

126 posted on 02/03/2006 4:29:52 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt
I'm trying to avoid putting words in your mouth, but I take that as "if Plame is not covert, then there should be no legal penalty for lying to investigators.

If Plame wasn't covert then what was Fitzgerald doing, conducting a sting operation that seems to have focused on the White House? (And this wasn't just Fitzgerald, the DOJ had spent several months investigating the claim prior to bringing him in.)

If Plame wasn't covert this was nothing more than a political fight. What right did Fitzgerald have to use his power and authority to investigate and silence one side?

129 posted on 02/03/2006 9:34:13 PM PST by Dolphy
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