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'I Hope She Drowns'- The implosion of the Democratic Party
Opinion Journal Wall Street Journal ^ | 2/2/06 | PEGGY NOONAN

Posted on 02/02/2006 6:11:22 AM PST by areafiftyone

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To: Huck
He really doesn't have to 'argue for them in any depth' Huck, because they are WORKING.

The economy is strong because of his beliefs, and we are winning the war on terror because of his beliefs.

Why belabor the obvious? He explained things very clearly to those who have the capacity to understand.

221 posted on 02/02/2006 2:01:22 PM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: ohioWfan

I have hardly read a word of hers after that critique of the Second Inaugural. I was at the Capitol for that speech and it was spectacular. I was there for the First one, too - a day I will NEVER forget!


222 posted on 02/02/2006 2:42:19 PM PST by maica (We are fighting the War for the Free World. Democrats and the media are not on our side.)
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To: fish hawk
She is joining the Mo Dowd Club of aging disgruntled reporters. In the end, they all end up being Helen Thomas.

There are some soylent green jokes in there somewhere!
223 posted on 02/02/2006 4:21:20 PM PST by starbase (Understanding Written Propaganda (click "starbase" to learn 22 manipulating tricks!!))
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To: ohioWfan

Don't tell me. Tell Peggy. I'm just saying her description fits what he's been doing all along. Nothing special about last night in that regard. Sort of like the debates. "The world is better off without Saddam." Could have invented some good drinking games around that one.


224 posted on 02/02/2006 4:22:16 PM PST by Huck (Roe/Kelo: You have a right to privacy IN your bedroom; you just don't have a right TO your bedroom.)
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To: areafiftyone

Peggy still believes in a nobler future America united by a shared conservative vision. Through her speeches, she once strove to grow the conservative movement by appealing to the humanity of fence-sitting Democrats. It must be discouraging and frustrating for her to see the rise of the Kos / DU lunatic faction as the new Democrat base. There is not enough humanity there to bother with.

Peggy shouldn't be giving such memorable sound bites to the enemy -- we could have done without the "at not to" comment -- but part of her value is that she is honest both in her praise and her criticism. I respect her and will continue to read her.


225 posted on 02/02/2006 5:04:06 PM PST by TChad
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To: ohioWfan; RightWingRadio

>>>
The fellow was including in his definition a whole lot of long time conservatives. Get it? Neo? Long-time?
<<<

What fellow? Was including what conservatives? In what definition? Do you mean where RightWingRadio says, "Neocons abound here." in post #30? By here I assume he means FR. Are you saying that there are not a lot of neocons (pro welfare/warfare state) on FreeRepublic?

I realize the rather pedantic point that neo means new. That is why I pointed out (in post #215) that neocons are neither new nor conservative. Neo means new I get it! No really, I do. Honestly!


>>>
It's an incorrect, trite, and meaningless insult of people that you don't have the intellectual wherewithal to debate.
<<<

Why is it an insult? A poor name perhaps (50 years on), but one that has stuck. Maybe we could call them paleoneocons to distinguish them from the "paleocons", but remind us that they too have been around along time.

Regarding "intellectual wherewithal", I have just enough to understand that the whole world does not have to agree with me, and I do not have to get bent out of shape when my ideas or "heroes" are criticized.


226 posted on 02/02/2006 5:06:41 PM PST by evilC ([573]Tag Server Error, Tag not found)
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To: evilC; RightWingRadio
How bout let's let Radio defend his words, OK? You're ending up wasting a lot of time and energy arguing a case that doesn't need to be argued.

Let's get down to the bottom line of your post.....

Regarding "intellectual wherewithal", I have just enough to understand that the whole world does not have to agree with me, and I do not have to get bent out of shape when my ideas or "heroes" are criticized

You see, this is a serious problem with you self-righteous types who think that anyone who supports President Bush isn't REALLY a conservative.

We are permitted to think Peggy Noonan is completely wrong in her assessment without being called names by guys like RightWingRadio. It happens all the time, and it is shallow and silly.

That's why I asked him if he even understood what 'neo' meant. There are lots of us getting labeled with that idiotic name who don't come even close to it.

It's intellectual laziness, and I see a whole lot of it coming from freepers who mistakenly think they're better than the rest of us...........and from your last line, that apparently includes you.

227 posted on 02/02/2006 6:16:39 PM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: Huck
So you think President Bush is simple minded? Really??

You think you're intellectually superior? Would do a better job leading the U.S. as it fights terror? Would do a better job bringing this economy back to the robust, healthy condition its in now?

You really think you can look down on the President because you think he doesn't speak with enough complexity?

You need to do a little reading about how firmly he grasps any complex concept thrown at him, assesses it, and comes up with a solution (multiple sources document that quality).

Honestly Huck, when you look down on a man because of the way he talks, you really look like an elitist left winger, you know? (I know you're not, but you're doing a good imitation right now).

228 posted on 02/02/2006 6:21:11 PM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: ohioWfan

Regarding RWR, I just wanted to confirm what you meant. When you said the he was "including in his definition a whole lot of long time conservatives", I was not sure if (perhaps on another thread) he had given an actual definition or named names.

I see no insult in any of the conservative prefixes. They are all just shorthand for a loose description of principals. Though I do think neocon is thrown about a bit too freely.

I think the "heroes" line in my post may not have been the best phrasing. You may have taken it to mean "bushbot" or something similar, which is not how it was intended. I have seen the same reaction to criticism-from-a-friend when the subject is other than President Bush. A popular conservative pundit criticizes the conservative "hero" and all of a sudden the pundit is the enemy. It was that reaction (not confined to Bush supporters) I was reacting against.


>>>
You see, this is a serious problem with you self-righteous types who think that anyone who supports President Bush isn't REALLY a conservative.
<<<

Of course that can go the other way with "self-righteous types" who think that anyone who criticizes President Bush is a moonbat, fringer or my favorite (given that this is a conservative board) ultra conservative. Yes "ultra conservative" was thrown out as a criticism on FreeRepublic.

I don't think I am "better than the rest of you". One of the interesting, if frustrating, things about FreeRepublic is that although populated by conservatives I still find people to disagree with. However we are all, the "bushbots", "fringers" and "paleos" on the same team (we may be playing diferent games though :>).

PS I think I have posted more today (on this an other threads) than I have in the last year, so this will be my last word on this thread.
... was that a sigh of relied I heard?


229 posted on 02/02/2006 8:01:43 PM PST by evilC ([573]Tag Server Error, Tag not found)
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To: evilC; All
..Bill Clinton could sell an ice cube to an Eskimo...

...Hillary Clinton couldn't sell a glass of water in the Sahara...

230 posted on 02/02/2006 8:05:37 PM PST by Al Simmons ("Only those are fit to live who do not fear to die" - Theodore Roosevelt)
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To: ohioWfan

I didn't say any of those things. You're boxing with shadows. I said that Peggy's description of his speechifying on Iraq is correct and apropos of his entire time in office. Contrast it with Tony Blair, for example. I didn't even say I thought one or the other was better.


231 posted on 02/03/2006 9:57:07 AM PST by Huck (Roe/Kelo: You have a right to privacy IN your bedroom; you just don't have a right TO your bedroom.)
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To: evilC
... was that a sigh of relied I heard?

Yes. ;)

232 posted on 02/03/2006 11:13:03 AM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: Huck
"The world is better off without Saddam." Could have invented some good drinking games around that one.

If I am indeed 'boxing with shadows,' could you explain the meaning of this obvious insult?

Are you saying that if George W. Bush is not eloquent as is Tony Blair, that he is less of a leader?

I'm really asking, Huck, because it seems that you insult the President with one-liners all the time, and it gives an air of superiority on your part.

I don't happen to think that eloquence is a requirement of either character or leadership, and if the President is not capable of flowery speech nor rhapsodic rhetoric, it is absolutely irrelevant to anything at all, and needs not be mentioned.

It is WHAT he says that counts, and that, sir, is profound and visionary. And he expresses that vision in clear, concise, and easily understood speeches. I, for one, see that as a good thing.

233 posted on 02/03/2006 11:20:15 AM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: ohioWfan
It's not an insult. It's my way of concurring with Peggy when she writes:

He asserted more than he persuaded, and he chose to redeclare his beliefs rather than argue for them in any depth.
Sounds like a very good description of his performance in the debates. My drinking game gag simply reiterates the point.
234 posted on 02/03/2006 11:38:25 AM PST by Huck (Roe/Kelo: You have a right to privacy IN your bedroom; you just don't have a right TO your bedroom.)
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To: Huck
As you wish. Sounds like condescension to me.

And inaccurate as well........but I suppose we'll never agree, because I respect the man, his character and his leadership, and you don't.

235 posted on 02/03/2006 11:52:07 AM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: ohioWfan

Thought so! At least you did not make fun of my typo (what is a sigh of relied anyway?).


236 posted on 02/03/2006 12:56:50 PM PST by evilC ([573]Tag Server Error, Tag not found)
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To: evilC

LOL! Shows you how much I was paying attention. I didn't even NOTICE the typo. :)


237 posted on 02/03/2006 1:23:50 PM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: ohioWfan

Well I voted for the dude. That's enough, in my view. If I thought he was a persuasive debater, I'd say so.


238 posted on 02/04/2006 5:58:19 AM PST by Huck (Roe/Kelo: You have a right to privacy IN your bedroom; you just don't have a right TO your bedroom.)
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