Back from America (impressions about the US)

Noviy Vestnik ^ | June 23rd, 2004 | Natalya Fomina

[struwwelpeter]

The impressions of freeper 'svni' on her trip to the US in '04. The entire translation is here.

[ken5050]

FYI..and read the whole thing...you'll see why..

[peyton randolph]

Oklahoma is similar to Kazakhstan?

I knew it. :-)

[lugsoul]

"In my country we have problem..."

[ElTianti]

"And that problem is transport..."

[struwwelpeter]

Her FR 'about' page (svni) has a lot of links to other interesting articles. One interview discusses how she and her 'American fiance' met: interview. The link to the orginal article in Russian doesn't seem to work anymore, though.

[untenured]

"No, they were people I didn't know. They all had kind words. They tried to entertain me, took me everywhere and fed me.

My brother once spent several weeks traveling through Russia and said he was treated with equal warmth by ordinary Russians he didn't know, often of very humble means.

[BullDog108]

"New York, for example, the metro is very functional. No marble or murals such as in Moscow. They simply dig a ditch, put in the metal constructions, cover it with tiles, bury it, roll down the asphalt - and that's it."

I was completely amazed during my first visit to Moskva in the 70s when I travelled their subways. Incredible designs, pintings,ceilings, floortiles, etc. I am wondering how they look now....

[Cheburashka]

I was completely amazed during my first visit to Moskva in the 70s when I travelled their subways. Incredible designs, pintings,ceilings, floortiles, etc. I am wondering how they look now....
---
There was an article in a recent Russian Life about them. I don't think they've changed much from your recollection.

[shekkian]

ping

[struwwelpeter]

When I was in the Soviet Union in '91, the Metro was fantastic, like walking through an art gallery. In '93 and '98, things got a little trashy for awhile, but by 2000 it was pretty much restored to its former glory.

Peterburg's and Kyiv's are pretty nice, but still nothing like Moscow's. All three cities dug their subways very deep as part of civil defense.

Russian's attitudes towards Americans have also had their ups and downs. Nowadays mostly down.

Back when they first opened things up, Russian were very friendly and curious, but lately...

Usually I would hear the someone - whose opinion I could care less about - had really admired America until Yugoslavia/Iraq/takeyourpick. I think it's due to the world-wide drumbeat of anti-Americanism that our own media perpetuates.

Even in Ukraine, which should know better, people would repeat the most outrageous cr*p and act surprised when I'd put my fist under the noses and tell them - the recently liberated inmates of the world's largest insane asylum - that they need not lecture a citizen of a 220 year-old democracy about 'freedom'.

Even in Kazakhstan - ruled by the same guy since Gorby's days - I had students whose first sentence they could put together was "I hate your president."

There's a huge category of jokes about Americans over there, whom they often call 'Amerikosy', and a popular comedian named Zadornov who makes a good living telling how fat, stupid, lazy, etc. Americans are.

Sveta claims it's all envy - a Slavic trait they can't shake.

Of course, compared to France and Germany lately, Russia does seems pretty friendly, and when you get outside of the big cities the attitudes change somewhat.

[Skinn_dogg]

The terrorist attack at the theater and the school is a tragic story. Unbelievable.

[BullDog108]

Thanks for that report. I think I'll visit on my next trip to India. Aeroflot has some cheap flights from NYC to Delhi that pass thru Moskva.

One of these years I want to travel on the Trans Siberia Railroad...

[gogeo]

"Many live in New Jersey and work in Manhattan, so the ferry has a big parking lot. My friend in New Jersey said that she realized the dimensions of tragedy when she saw how many cars remained in the lot on September 11th, because their owners were no longer alive."

Wow...

[struwwelpeter]

svni's description of what went on at Dubrovka ise here. The husband of one of the hostages, who was on the outside looking in, also has some interesting descriptions of the events, here.

A lot of information about Dubrovka/Nord-Ost has come out due to lawsuits of the former hostages. Some of them have turned to the European Court of Human Rights, and an American family is also trying to sue Russia over the death of their son.

[SMARTY]

Europeans make and keep art to live with, Americans make art to sell.

[Skinn_dogg]

" I am frequently accused of not being objective; they say that I suffer from 'Stockholm syndrome'. I really have no reason to side with the Chechens: they set up the situation that resulted in the death of my entire family. I understand clearly that even in spite of the Chechens' acts my loved ones could have been saved had the authorities not undertaken this senseless, illogical assault, which could protect no one, and could have led the Chechens to blow everyone up. The assault itself was the cause of my loved ones' deaths."


She didn't blame the terrorists for anything. Even when they killed people she didn't condemn them. I don't think you can look at the situation without placing some or most of the blame on the terrorists.

[struwwelpeter]

We've argued that point a million times. She insists that none of the hostages died because of the terrorists. Her fiance died from the gas, and that her unconcious daughter was left unattended on a bus, to be crushed to death under a pile of adults.

Bureaucrats in Russia, like anywhere else, have well-developed 'cover-yer-ass' reflexes. Their autopsies supposedly showed that 129 hostages died of a 'multitude of unfavorable factors', such as dehydration, previously morbid disease conditions, poor body positioning, etc.

Two people, one a 'walk-in' named Olga Romanova, and the other a police officer pretending to be a concerned parent, were definitely shot by the terrorists. What happened to the young man who tried to dismantle one of the bombs, and the 'general' the Chechnyans supposedly found in the audience on the balcony, is never explained.

I agree that the terrorists are to blame, but when our county sheriff's deadbeat deputy screwed up an arrest that turned into a hostage situation, and ended up getting himself shot in the bargain, the local voters canned the sheriff.

There's nothing wrong with getting rid of ineffective, criminally negligent law enforcement personnel.

Ms. Gubareva doesn't seem to be the only former hostage or hostage's family member who blames the government. Here are some other 'Nord-Ost' opinions:

Tatiana Lukashova, whose daughter Mariya Panova died at 'Nord-Ost':

"... I am offended that those who took upon themselves the responsibility for hundreds of lives still remain unpunished. The investigation doesn't go anywhere, they shot those who seized the theater, but those who poisoned people can't be touched. Here's a line from the judicial examination, JUDGE FOR YOURSELF: 'There is no information about the rendering of medical assistance to M.M. Panova'. Everywhere they assert that there were enough medics, and medicine, then why wasn't any medical assistance rendered?"

Alena Mikhailova, former hostage at 'Nord-Ost', whose husband perished there:

"... I also want to know WHOLE truth, ANY TRUTH - not just a select tidbit! I want the government (and the people representing it) to apologize, to recognize their unprofessional conduct, their errors and rudeness to those who survived, and to the loved ones of those who died. I want compensation, pensions, and privileges to be determined at the legislative level, so that it's not necessary to fight it out in courts for three years... So those who come after us have it easier in the courts, at the housing office, and in the hospitals and schools... And most important, I want the average person to understand that we are not splitting hairs, but it's just advantageous for the government to portray us as such. So that tomorrow the person who was blaming us for 'diverting time and money from universal problems', should he find himself in our shoes, doesn't have to go around in circles like we did."

Oleg Zhirov, whose wife and son were among the hostages. Natalya Zhirova died:

"In these three years I've tried to learn the truth, to obtain justice. Today I want to ask those who were killed to forgive me, that three years later the guilty parties are still unpunished, that their loved ones are still being humiliated, that terror victims are still deprived medical assistance and material support, and that hundreds of people are still dying from acts of terror."

Lyubov Burban, whose son Grigori Burban died at 'Nord-Ost':

"...Is it possible to not be terrified of this refined blasphemy - the international image of a nation is supported by a mountain of corpses, the bodies of its peaceful citizens?! ... A lie, packed up in a state secret, and privatized by the Kremlin, this is the result of the three year investigation into 'Nord-Ost'. Not knowing how to prove the absolute necessity for their assault on the theater, the kangaroo court has revealed the senselessness of this 'successful operation', and their monstrous high treason... 'Nord-Ost' and Beslan must become objects of international investigations. Such crimes do not have a statute of limitations!"

Tatiana Karpova, whose son Alexander Karpov perished at the theater:

"Three years since the act of terror at Dubrovka. These, perhaps, were the hardest, most terrible years of my life. The years of desperation, limitless humiliation, years of disappointment in our laws and justice, years of faith in the existence of a country that guarantees of a normal, human life destroyed, this is the country in which I live, and for which I have never-ending shame."

Zoya Chernetsova, whose only son Daniel perished at the theater:

"... Father Nikolai from our church spoke an untruth when he said that time heals all... I still remember everything. The heart still hurts just as bad, I still sleep poorly, and I still make the same rounds... The cemetery every Tuesday or Thursday, I go round there... To the grave of Ninochka Milovidova, she's first on the way, then to my son Daniel, then Vadim Medvedev's grave... Grief brought me together with these people. Three years ago I did not know the Milovidovs, though I lived on an adjacent street. Who was Nina Milovidova? A pretty, fourteen-year-old girl, who was by chance in this terrible theater together with my son, together with Vadim Medvedev, and everyone.... Who was Vadim Valentinovich Medvedev? He was a military man, who was there with his wife. Now I know his ailing parents, his tiny wife, and even his two sons who are drawn together with me in grief. Now I know the Karpov family, I know about Svetlana Gubareva's family, which was destroyed before it began... and many others... They support me in my fight against the cynicism of bureaucrats and judges.

"...During all these three years, I have the same questions twirling through my head: why? For what? Why? Why they did release the gas? Why did my son perish? Why me? Putin briefly answered all questions when he said: 'It just turned out that way, excuse me...' Yes, and so it turned out that way, but I don't forgive, because I don't know how I can live on, alone, on a monthly pension of 2016 rubles (about $80), and, thanks to Trunov, 1787 rubles (about $70) for a lost breadwinner...

"Once again I make the rounds... the cemetery... There are yellow birch leaves on Ninochka's grave, ripe chestnuts on Daniel's, the oak leaves rustle on Vadim's grave... Further on the stele of Transvaal Park. And further on? Further on, is Beslan."

Natalya and Vladimir Kurbatov, whose 13-year-old daughter Kristina Kurbatova perished at 'Nord-Ost':

"... She was only 13 years old. Her whole life had only just begun; there was so much ahead of her, so many interesting, unknown and excellent things to come. But the government officials decided to make our daughter, as they did 129 other hostages, into a victim of their political ambitions... There are no guilty persons, just some heroes who were awarded the highest state honors, although by secret edicts. Is this not truly shameful?

"... Kristina was the young actress of the musical 'Nord-Ost', and played the role of Katya Tatarinova. She will remain as such for us forever. We love her. We compare all our actions with what she would do, our dear girl. Forgive us, Kristyusha, that we could not safeguard you."

Victoria Zaslavskaya, whose 13-year-old son Arseni Kurilenko died at 'Nord-Ost':

"...Nothing, it seems, depends on us. Yes and probably it couldn't be otherwise. There were too few us there, when compared to the scale of our enormous city, our enormous country. Literally a hundred meters from the 'zone' of the tragedy, life went on, unburdened by this nightmare. There, on the other side of this cordoned-off block of fear and confusion, it was quiet and indifferent to the point of nausea..."

[Skinn_dogg]

A sad story. If you haven't seen this documentary it's really good.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0383669/

[struwwelpeter]

Thanks, I wonder where I can find that?

OTOH, it might be better that I didn't - when I translated a BBC documentary for some 'Nord-Ost' people, they were yelling at ME for what the narrator was supposedly getting wrong.

After this many years, memories are set in concrete, whether they happened or not.

Had my faith been stronger, maybe I could have been able to offer some real help.

It was annoying to see the Scientologists and Moonies make a bee-line for Osetia, after Beslan. Quite a few of the 'Beslan Mothers' have been scammed by a 'healer' who promises to raise their children from the dead, if they have enough faith.

Evil never rests :-(