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I don't know how old you are. Do you remember the Reagan Amnesty in 1986? Those of us who do have heard about these "other parts of the bill" before. They are meaningless. We were supposed to get a one time amnesty coupled with tough border enforcement and tough enforcement of employment laws.

That was general amnesty for anyone in the country. That's not the same as even Bush's original plan to grant amnesty to those who are already here and gainfully employed, which he appears to be backing away from somewhat.

It's definitely not the same as a program that allows new people to come into the country to work at existing jobs.

A blanket amnesty would be a horrible thing for our country.

Bush's original plan would be less horrible, but still horrible.

However, a guest worker program that allows legal immigration, but does not give any preference to those already here, and does not allow people who are already here to apply unless they are here illegally, does not grant amnesty and does not encourage illegal immigration.

Right now we have a lot of illegal immigrants working in the US, and they are the among the easiest to locate, apprehend and deport.

Deporting them is a good thing, but it will also mean a labor shortage. A somewhat tight labor market can be good for workers. However, it can also suddenly make it hard to get things done in a lot of industries. It drives up inflation. It harms even the companies in those markets that never used illegal labor.

There are a lot of illegal immigrants working as contractors in the construction industry. Take a look to the areas where hurricane damage has created a shortage of construction workers though growth in the industry there.

Construction costs have skyrocketed. I know a number of people who live in the midwest that have temporally relocated to the gulf coast to work in construction there because the wages are high enough to justify them leaving home, getting an apartment, and sending money back home to their families.

The people who's houses were destroyed are finding that their insurance coverage which was sufficient to rebuild their homes before isn't enough to cover the costs now because labor and material costs have increased so much.

We need to deport illegal workers, but we also have to realize what that is going to do to businesses and consumers.

I agree that we can't afford another amnesty. I however, don't believe that we do not need a guest worker plan to address legal immigration needs. It is possible to address one without the other, and we need to keep pressure on our legislators to make sure they do it. However, blind opposition to any form of guest worker or visa program is foolish.

President Bush has certainly shown himself absolutely unwilling to enforce current law against employers.

That's strange, there was an immigration raid going after the cleaning contractor at the Walmart less than a mile from my home.

In that case there was actually evidence that the management at Walmart knew their contractor was using illegal immigrants.

However, there definitely are problems in the government regarding illegal immigration. The IRS gets hundreds of thousands of W-2 forms with invalid SSNs or with SSNs who do not belong to the person who filled out the W-2, yet they don't inform the employers.

Sometimes there's a raid and they pick a sacrificial lamb to scare other immigrants, but they don't inform the employers that the people they have working for them are not legally employable.

When the do a raid, it tosses a bunch of illegal immigrants into our catch and release system. Unless they voluntarily leave, their cases will take weeks or months to handle. Our jails are full. They get released and 90% don't show up for their hearings and just move to another part of the country to find a new job illegally.

I agree that the IRS needs to inform employers and tell them that they cannot have that person working for them, and that the employer must fire them. However, enforcement is up to the government, and the government is in a situation where they cannot enforce the law because the jails and the courts are overburdened.

Expedited deportation helps speed up the process. Before the Bush administration changed the policy it was only used at ports. Now it's being used within 100 miles of the Mexican border and being expanded to within 100 miles of the Canadian border, yet it still only applies to those who entered the country within the previous 2 weeks.

It's hard to hold employers accountable when the government isn't telling them people are illegal, and our equal employment laws make it difficult for the employer to check without risking getting sued.

Those who want to undermine our immigration laws have become very good at doing so.

They attack employers through equal opportunity laws.

They fight every effort of the border patrol claiming civil rights violations, or that the immigrants aren't getting the a proper chance to apply for asylum. They work to stop patrols, fences and other types of enforcement using environmental laws.

Eight years of the Clinton administration has given them lot of tools, even though Clinton at the same time significantly increased the size of the border patrol and told the unions how much he was doing to protect their jobs from illegal laborers.

The only realistic plan that has a chance of actually working is one that puts enforcement first. The one that just passed in the House is not great but it is better than anything being considered in the Senate. The Hunter Bill in the House was a lot better.

I'll have to take a closer look at the bills.

Mo guest worker plan has a chance of working until we prove that we have adequate enforcement capability to enforce our border and our laws in the interior. Without enforcement we will just have illegals coming in and undercutting the guests.

I agree, but that's a very different thing from demonizing any type of guest worker program. If we have a guest worker program that is not amnesty, it doesn't hurt us even if enforcement isn't successful other than it being a waste.

If it's not amnesty it also doesn't hide the problem.

And of course the guests will never leave.

If they are being undercut by illegals taking the jobs, then the guest workers won't be coming in since they are required to be matched with a job.

There is a risk of employers wanting legal workers and applying for a guest worker, and then when that worker's visa expires, or if that worker quits or is fired, they don't leave the country. That's a risk with any visa program, and it does happen to some extent with any visa program.

Any guest worker program needs to include stiff penalties for people who overstay their visas. Real jail time. Not being allowed to reapply to visa programs in the future.

Right now our current law treats such things as misdemeanors even if they are enforced.