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To: whattajoke
"why didn't the present day apes "evolve" into humans?..."

"Why in the world would they? Your question shines a brutally bright spotlight on your ignorance."

Nice try, but YOU are supposedly the 'evolution' expert, so YOU need to answer why the apes which live today somehow managed to escape the evolutionary process which gradually turned their ancestors into humans. How did they manage to cheat nature and escape their evolutionary fate?

Why are there no written historical documents recorded by humans detailing their (allegedly) intelligent, but sub-human beings that contested them for land, food, etc?..."

"Huh? Your question shines an even more brutally bright spotlight on your ignorance."

I don't expect a Darwinist to be able to think deeply enough to conceptualize this rather basic dictum, but if over millions of years there were a gradual change where apes were transforming into humans, there would be long periods where the evolutionary process remained static, and your part-monkey-part-human ancestors would have thrived and left endless amounts of fossils from their bodies, skulls, shelters, weapons, tools, etc. But we have no such thing, all we have are ape fossils and very primitive human remnants. There is still NO MISSING LINK. "Piltdown Man" is still the closest thing you've got to the proverbial missing link.

But to take your little Darwinist mind even deeper into my thought, the various climate and environmental differences on the earth would have certainly affected the 'evolutionary' process of these apes, allowing for some of them to remain ape-like for a longer period of time than the others, others to evolve closer to human beings, and still others to have already fully evolved. If this did not happen, then you don't have evolution you have UNIVERSAL INSTANT CHANGE, which contradicts everything Darwin theorized.

Now, if you have fairly intelligent apes, other even more developed apes, apes that are now almost human, and recently evolved but fully human people, then, (unless they were all prototypes of modern day peace protesters), you'd have inevitable clashes between the species. There would assuredly have been battles over territory, food, prey, water, shelter; and even clashes for fear of each other.

Fully developed humans are extremely intelligent beings. They build marvelous structures, they make fascinating weapons and tools, they leave wonderful art everywhere they exist, and they develop language. (In fact an effective language would have developed even before they became fully human). With this language, humans speak, write and record things. They make carvings, drawings, paintings and leave writings. In short, they leave some history of themselves; they are humans, after all. Why didn't these humans leave any record whatsoever of there being another form of being which was close to them but more primitive, more ape-like? Where are the remnants of the inevitable tribal battles between these closely related species, replete with bones from both humans and semi-humans? Where is the decisive evidence of evolution aside from in the minds of Darwinites?

For you Darwin worshippers, the many holes, missing links and endless unknowns of 'evolution' are conveniently filled in with astounding conjecture, and you trust in this conjecture and theory with a blind faith that is baffling because it trusts in no intelligent Cause of life, no reason for anything. And yet we are REASONABLE beings. But this kind of blind faith is not really faith at all, it's the perfect example of human pride.

344 posted on 01/31/2006 2:39:40 PM PST by TheCrusader ("The frenzy of the mohammedans has devastated the Churches of God" Pope Urban II ~ 1097A.D.)
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To: TheCrusader
Nice try, but YOU are supposedly the 'evolution' expert, so YOU need to answer why the apes which live today somehow managed to escape the evolutionary process which gradually turned their ancestors into humans.

Because they didn't live in environments with selection pressures that favoured more human-like traits.

How did they manage to cheat nature and escape their evolutionary fate?

What "evolutionary fate"? Evolution has no goal or purpose.

Could you at least demonstrate that you have tried to understand the theory before you come in here and bring up all manner of inane "challenges" that are based in a completely faulty understanding?
348 posted on 01/31/2006 2:48:04 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: TheCrusader
For you Darwin worshippers, the many holes, missing links and endless unknowns of 'evolution' are conveniently filled in with astounding conjecture, and you trust in this conjecture and theory with a blind faith that is baffling because it trusts in no intelligent Cause of life, no reason for anything. And yet we are REASONABLE beings. But this kind of blind faith is not really faith at all, it's the perfect example of human pride.

Well said indeed! Ahh yes, pride.... It's very ironic that those who randomly evolved from monkeys or pond scum are so prideful of themselves and their 'supposed' knowledge, and those of us who were fearfully and wonderfully made by a creator of unfathomable wisdom and intelligence have no problem admitting we don't know it all.

349 posted on 01/31/2006 2:49:19 PM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: TheCrusader
YOU need to answer why the apes which live today somehow managed to escape the evolutionary process which gradually turned their ancestors into humans

Honestly, anyone with a very, very elementary understanding of evolution will not ask this question. Heck, even the idiots over at the leading creationist website, Answers in Genesis think you're a tad behind the creationist times. Oof, that's embarrassing!

‘If we evolved from apes, why are there still apes today?’ In response to this statement, some evolutionists point out that they don’t believe that we descended from apes, but that apes and humans share a common ancestor. However, the evolutionary paleontologist G.G. Simpson had no time for this ‘pussyfooting’, as he called it. He said, ‘In fact, that earlier ancestor would certainly be called an ape or monkey in popular speech by anyone who saw it. Since the terms ape and monkey are defined by popular usage, man’s ancestors were apes or monkeys (or successively both). It is pusillanimous [mean-spirited] if not dishonest for an informed investigator to say otherwise.’

However, the main point against this statement is that many evolutionists believe that a small group of creatures split off from the main group and became reproductively isolated from the main large population, and that most change happened in the small group which can lead to allopatric speciation (a geographically isolated population forming a new species). So there's nothing in evolutionary theory that requires the main group to become extinct.

It’s important to note that allopatric speciation is not the sole property of evolutionists—creationists believe that most human variation occurred after small groups became isolated (but not speciated) at Babel, while Adam and Eve probably had mid-brown skin color. The quoted erroneous statement is analogous to saying ‘If all people groups came from Adam and Eve, then why are mid-brown people still alive today?’


Their 2nd paragraph actually ain't half bad. I figure that if creationists teach you a little something about evolution, maybe you'll learn a little.
(From here.

Your 2nd question involved something about why there is no written history of man fighting off "post-monkey/pre-man men." It's not even worth answering - You apparently dont' accept that the earth predates man's ability to write things down, so why bother discussing further?
381 posted on 01/31/2006 3:35:50 PM PST by whattajoke
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