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We seem to be talking at cross-purposes.

"Rational" in the economics context simply means that you aren't acting against your self-interests. These self interests can be much broader than simple greed. They include acts of altruism toward one's family, community and country.

The concept of "economic man" doesn't mean that everyone is always rational -- just that enough are, so that we can make some predictions about the economy.

The article starting this thread mentioned some of the newer research being done in economics. In part, this is an attempt to come up with better explanations about what makes people tick. The concept of "economic man" will probably be replaced in economic theory -- just as theories in any other field change.

Here's a snippet about Adam Smith's views:
"Smith laid the intellectual framework that explained the free market and still holds true today. He is most often recognized for the expression "the invisible hand," which he used to demonstrate how self-interest guides the most efficient use of resources in a nation's economy, with public welfare coming as a by-product. To underscore his laissez-faire convictions, Smith argued that state and personal efforts, to promote social good are ineffectual compared to unbridled market forces."

Economists are careful to separate out "what should be" from facts about what is and what will be. When decision makers know what the options are -- they use their value system to chose amongst them. If you mix the ethics in with the facts, you wind up with a muddle something like the biased news reports in the MSM.

Economists are careful to separate out "what should be" from facts about what is and what will be.

But this is the fundamental error. They want economy to be like physics. But economy same way as the law is about what people do. As such it CANNOT be separated from

values. BTW, the notion of "value" is necessary.

The economical thinkers who deny it, in fact promote particular interests or values hiding them under the cover of "scientific objectivity". The "invisible" hand of English "free" market robbed whole nations blind.

Free market was behind slave and drug trade, behind exterminations (Tasmanians for example) in modern times behind people like Gusinski, Khodorkovsky and Bierezovsky.

""Rational" in the economics context simply means that you aren't acting against your self-interests. These self interests can be much broader than simple greed. They include acts of altruism toward one's family, community and country."

Actually, 'rational' encompasses a bit more than that, IMHO. It assumes that faced between putting food on the table and buying a luxury car, one opts to put food on the table ( a simple example, but it should illustrate ). Its not quite the same as the self-interest you describe.