Posted on 01/30/2006 6:23:10 AM PST by FerdieMurphy
When the Founders said a 'Citizen of the United States', they were talking about State Citizens, NOT federal ones.
The concept of it meaning otherwise DID NOT OCCUR until the 14th Amendment. Until then, there was no such thing as a federal Citizen of the United States, or what we call a 'US citizen'.
The Supreme Court of the United States as well as other courts have said as much REPEATEDLY.
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"The privileges and immunities clause of the 14th Amendment protects very few rights because it neither incorporates the Bill of Rights nor protects all rights of individual citizens. (See Slaughter House cases, 83 US (16 Wall.) 36, 21 L. Ed. 394 (1873)). Instead this provision protects only those rights peculiar to being a citizen of the federal government; it does not protect those rights which relate to state citizenship."
Jones v. Temmer, 839 F. Supp. 1226
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"The right to trial by jury in civil cases, guaranteed by the 7th Amendment…and the right to bear arms guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment…have been distinctly held not to be privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States guaranteed by the 14th Amendment…and in effect the same decision was made in respect of the guarantee against prosecution, except by indictment of a grand jury, contained in the 5th Amendment…and in respect of the right to be confronted with witnesses, contained in the 6th Amendment…it was held that the indictment, made indispensable by the 5th Amendment, and trial by jury guaranteed by the 6th Amendment, were not privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States, as those words were used in the 14th Amendment. We conclude, therefore, that the exemption from compulsory self-incrimination is not a privilege or immunity of National citizenship guaranteed by this clause of the 14th Amendment."
Twining v. New Jersey, 211 US 78, 98-99
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"We have in our political system a government of the United States and a government of each of the several States. Each one of these governments is distinct from the others, and each has citizens of it's own..."
United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875)
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"There is a difference between privileges and immunities belonging to the citizens of the United States as such, and those belonging to the citizens of each state as such".
Ruhstrat v. People, 57 N.E. 41 (1900) --------
"There are, then, under our republican form of government, two classes of citizens, one of the United States and one of the state".
Gardina v. Board of Registrars of Jefferson County, 160 Ala. 155; 48 So. 788 (1909)
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"...rights of national citizenship as distinct from the fundamental or natural rights inherent in state citizenship".
Madden v. Kentucky, 309 U.S. 83: 84 L.Ed. 590 (1940)
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Gee! I guess the Founders and all our Judges are SO much stupider than justshutupandtakeit! THEY think 'State Citizenship' is a viable legal concept! ( /major dripping sarcasm)
Just because you refuse to believe that the federal government ISN'T all-powerful doesn't change the WELL documented LEGAL FACT one bit!
That's precisely what the leftist, socialist, communist PACs (Soros,et al) are doing now by funneling money into the campaign coffers of the leftists they like.
Thie states you mention (Vermont as well) are a boil on the ass of progress. They call themselves progressives, but that term now means socialists. Further bastardization of our language like using the word gay to indicate a perverted and sinful class of people who achieve orgasms in disgusting ways.
And if fact, was ratified while Taft was still President. Ratification occurring on February 3, 1913, Wilson wasn't sworn in until March 4th.
The 17th Amendment was ratified on April 8th, so most of that process took place under Taft as well.
-PJ
Interesting quotes though completely irrelevent to the issue. While a citizen of the United States can be a citizen of a state as well there is no such thing as a citizen of a state who is NOT a citizen of the United States. One is never even sworn in as a citizen of a state. There are no standards for becoming a citizen of a state it is so nebulous. Even a homeless bum can claim citizenship of any state wherein he resides at the moment.
In case you have the idea that I claimed there was no such thing as a citizen of a state that idea came out of nowhere.
I realize the desperation of some to destroy the concept of the federal government and replace it with some crackpot alternative but posting a few canned cites from some dubious website won't do it.
ROFLMAO!
I didn't know quoting the Founders and several decades of legal precedent constituted 'replacing the federal government with a crackpot alternative'!
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Freedom is a two edged sword.
(Providing you're not a 14th Amendment citizen), the Constitution guarantees your freedom of opinion along with your freedom of speech.
Sadly, it also guarantees your freedom to remain ignorant and enslaved.
Good day.
One of the favorite tactics of the Crackpot lovers is to selectively quote the Founders and court decisions which they believe support their hatred of the federal government. It never works among those who have bothered to learn about American history and our Constitution but seems to enthrall those who have not. Your use of such quotations when they do not support your contention shows their canned nature and how they are dragged out and inserted to support whatever lame argument is being made. Your complete lack of understanding about the nature of citizenship is amplified by such tactics.
These sites come from the same cranks who believe we were freer and better off in the past and whose nostalgia blinds them to the reality of days gone by and of today. They are worried about the Patriot Act but ignore our real enemies. They attack the President for any number of dumbass reasons and make every attempt to weaken and destroy the GOP claiming to be "real" patriots. Let me guess: Lincoln was a tyrant and the Slavers right in seceding; the Tenth amendment gave the states the right to secede; the Federal Reserve was a communist Jewish plot to enslave mankind.
There are no "14th amendment" citizens left since states cannot deny citizenship to native born blacks. But thanks for playing.
"Wilson, for all his faults, never sold our defense secrets to our ideological enemy."
Clinton never did either. He Gave them away. The campaign cash was just quid pro quo.
He sold them.
You would still have Kennedy, and a few of the others, but the system would work better with a repeal.
Agreed. The Northeast states will always send liberals to Washington. Even Maine, who gave us Susan and Olympia both RINOs.
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