Posted on 01/28/2006 1:15:41 PM PST by Eaglewatcher
LMAO @ #153 !
Instinctively I agree with you. However, who knows the pressure that would be placed on the few groundbreakers.
And your point is????
Do you agree with Nightie that costs and prices are unrelated (or meaningles) or not. Ruminating about hypothetical situations doesn't answer the question.
The price I can charge for an item has no relation to what it costs me to produce it.
But, of course, if the value is not larger than my costs the I will not be in business for too long as I will not make money. This can happen because you are very efficiently making products that are not valued, or inefficiently making products that are valued. In either case, the market cares nothing about your costs.
Another self proclaimed economist.Your posts are always about me. I noticed you couldn't dispute the fact of the hidden tax increase built into your scam...Errrr, I mean scheme.
My economic model showing proving a hidden tax increase is more accurate than merrillbender's new, improved, updated (to cover the previous lies) 10% price reduction ...
By way of follow-up, isn't it a hell of a coincidence that as crude oil prices have gone up for the past few years, so has the per gallon price at the pump?As well as record profits...Your point is?
Thanx for the link ... and a GREAT gravestone for the Income Tax (and its many lovers).
Your appearance on these threads is greatly appreciated by non-Squirrels.
Unlike you, I'm not so concerned about those in the illegal economy (drug dealers, etc.) or the poor receiving the prebate since the prebate is legally available to any who qualify under the FaiTax bill (which basically are those with a bona fide S/S # who are lawful residents of the US).
These people will all be paying taxes at the same rate so the prebate represents the taxpayers geting back some portion of their taxes as a refund.
Another straw man Robbie. that's not even the issue re taxation. We aren't discussing pricing strategy here, but taxation and its effect on helping to lower prices.
Or perhaps you believe that tax costs are not part of final prices of things???
What "hidden tax increase" are you referring to Looey.
And what "scam" for that matter. I see neither.
Louie has espoused that bizarre economic notion in the past, also. He may have taken such a battering that he has abandoned it by now, however.If you're going refernce me with your wanton idiocy you can at least shed your cowardice and put my name in the "To" box. I know HTML is too much for you to comprehend but certainly you know how to follow the instructions printed right above the "To:" box.
There is no absolute for cost VS price. Costs, taxes and wants don't dictate prices moron. If they did we wouldn't be talking about corporate losses.
Having auto dealers pay 23% of their gross income in taxes from every sale isn't going to help the auto companies lagging sales.
The dollars already held are mostly in tax deferred investments like IRA and 401K plans. All of which are dollars that would be taxed under the income tax system.
Only dollars your statement applies too is a passbook savings account or an investment portfolio outside your IRA.
NET NET most Seniors with such invstments or savings are ahead with the Fair Tax.
A conservative price drop of 10% means only a net increae of final price with tax of 17% which is certainly offset by the elimination of the income tax on those IRA and 401K investments.
Any capital gains from investment in property including ones primary home will be an additional offset.(depending if you have used the one time housing exemption).
Their value has just jumped and allows for purchase of used items with no tax consequence. Allows the withdrawal and investment with no consequence; allows the gifting with no tax consequence.
Most improtantly, the retired generation can leave a better tax system that will sutain America for their Children and Grandchildren. Our current tax system of income and payroll tax cannot sustain Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security at our current rates of taxation. The going into the red year I belieeve is 2042 for SSI and much earlier for Medicare and Medicaid. I believe 2025 ot 26?
Either Payroll taxes alone will have to double or the programs they pay for will have to be cut drastically. Is that what you want to leave yur Grandchildren.
The Fair Tax provides a foundation for the kind of economic growth that could grow our economy out of some of that problem.
The Fair Tax provides a broader tax base where everyone contributes to Social Security and Medicare everytime they buy a product or service. It is not Fair to Saddle every 2 working Grandkids with the heavy burden of supporting just one retired Grandparent.
To many people are ME-ME and my retirement savings, instead of looking at other beneftis of the Fair Tax for America's Future.
The fact is that most Seniors will use up what they put into Social Security within a few short years. The payroll taxes were much lower in the 1950s and 1960s. So to were the wages. The payroll tax money paid in 1965 paid for a retiree in 1965. It was not put into a savings account getting interest. Even as Social Insurance, it would be a failing and bankrupt system under Insurance and banking Laws.
After a few short years a retiree is living off someone else's hard earned income. I don't think that is a fair system at all.
The Fair Tax makes social security and Medicare everyone's responsibility. Whether it is investment income or wage income. Capital Gains or rental income. When any dollar no matter how earned or recieved is spent it helps to support SSI and Medicare.
That is better for future Seniors, better for our Grandchildren and better for America.
"I admit that it seems to contain an element of socialism in that the tax rebate would apparently go to families who have little or no visible income, this could mean that drug dealers and others who operate on a strictly cash basis might be collecting a monthly stipend from the taxpayers."
Some Americans may have little or no visible income, but there are no Americans (above ground) who don't consume. Remember that consumption is the base for the sales tax. Are there some who may consume less than the poverty level? Sure, but that seems a small compromise to make to greatly streamline our system of tax collection, remove an enormous economic anchor, make us more competitive in an increasingly global economy, and realign our tax system with our constitutional principles. I would hazard a guess that there are few Americans who consume less than 50% of the poverty level compared to many, many who consume far more.
As far as drug dealers are concerned, they will still be paying the tax on consummable items they buy at the store. I dare say that most of them will be consuming well above the poverty level, so on a net basis they become direct taxpayers for the first time. From that perspective, the FairTax is an improvement over the current system.
In addition, illegal immigrants move from a tax preferenced position to a tax disadvantaged one (because they would not get the rebate).
There is nothing wrong with healthy skepticism about anything as new and as clean a break from the past as the FairTax. Every FairTax supporter that I know started out as a skeptic. However, none of us started out as SQLs (Status Quo Lovers) and that is the big difference. The FairTax may not be perfect, but it is a huge improvement over the current system and significantly better than alternative reform proposals. For many of us, that is good enough to get our support.
By way of follow-up, isn't it a hell of a coincidence that as crude oil prices have gone up for the past few years, so has the per gallon price at the pump?And isn't it a coincidence that today Exxon reported record profits. $36.13 billion for the year! So, obviously, the market price they were able to get for their products was way above their costs.
The dollars already held are mostly in tax deferred investments like IRA and 401K plans. All of which are dollars that would be taxed under the income tax system.
Only dollars your statement applies too is a passbook savings account or an investment portfolio outside your IRA.
NET NET most Seniors with such invstments or savings are ahead with the Fair Tax."
Not to mention that several investment managers have indicated that they expect the DJI to double within 24 months of passage of the FairTax. That may not occur; the increase may only be 50%. However, even that gain would substantially change the financial picture for most seniors with significant retirement assets. This would certainly dwarf any additional post tax price increases of their toilet paper and Metamucil, especially since the rebate offsets that up to the poverty level.
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