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To: WOSG
I've got to tell you, I think you are nuts if you think this would help us. Making the US pay ~25% more than foreign markets do for oil would destroy our economy.

The manufacturing would and should not be on oil energy

Manufacturing depends on transportation of raw materials, finished products and a labor workforce that drives automobiles. Plastics use a lot of petroleum as feedstock.

Can you honestly believe that are current payment of $200 billion to unstable oil-owning Governments is a good thing?

No, Which is why we need to shut down the eviromentalist lobby that keeps us from our own resouces.

But of course an oil tariff is the #1 way to encourage and incentivize domestic production.

No, it is not.

Shale oil *requires* an oil tariff to be a practical long-term solution because its cost of development will not be incurred up-front unless there is clearly a price point that can sustain it.

Then you have not be following this market. It requires no such thing. Shell believes they have the process economical to produce oil in the $20's per barrel. The same claims were made of the tar sands and artifical price lifts were not required.

401 posted on 01/28/2006 10:34:08 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
I give up. I am a bit astounded at this. For so called conservatives to be suggesting a tax on energy is frankly bizarre. There are so many ways to "stick it to the ME sheiks" while achieving energy independence besides shooting ourselves in the foot. It is like cutting off an arm to stop the bleeding on a finger cut.

For one thing, as an investor, I would bail out of energy stocks and so would my clients.

I saw Fox last night call hydrogen a nonpolluting source of energy. Somebody needs to tell them hydrogen is not a source of energy, you have to use energy to create hydrogen. Hydrogen is an amazingly inefficient CONSUMER of energy.
405 posted on 01/29/2006 6:06:40 AM PST by Sunnyflorida
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To: thackney

"I've got to tell you, I think you are nuts if you think this would help us. Making the US pay ~25% more than foreign markets do for oil would destroy our economy."

First, most other OECD nations have *higher* taxes on oil than we do - if you ever have bought gasoline in Europe you'll notice this.

Second, oil prices ramped up in the past 2 years by more than the amount I advocate, and the economy grew, not shrank. Oil is 1.5% of our economy, 1% of which is purely imported. Oil is our biggest, #1 cause of our large trade deficit, and is a big problem. increasing such a cost is marginal to the economy, but will make a positive difference in our trade balances.

Third, this is not about paying more in total energy costs, but via the import fee encouraging domestic production, energy efficiency and alternatives. All three activities will increase US economy, add jobs, etc.

So the claims that this would hurt our economy are unsound.
Taking $50 billion via oil import fees and rebating/reducing other taxes, like payroll, etc. would be a win/win for our economy.

"Can you honestly believe that are current payment of $200 billion to unstable oil-owning Governments is a good thing?" -- "No, Which is why we need to shut down the eviromentalist lobby that keeps us from our own resouces."

I agree. Let's get at our own resources. But environmentalists alway claim that we need to do more on energy efficiency, and then stop what we need to do on production. Ahem, we need BOTH. So defang their arguments by doing ALL of the things needed, not just one or two: Encourage higher MPG cars; drill in ANWR, offshore and govt lands; get nuclear power used more widely; pursue alternative fuels and EVs (eg plug-in hybrid electrics that can get equiv of 100mpg by using electricity as source of power); and get us off imported oil by discouraging it (the only way is via taxation).

An oil import fee should be viewed as one arrow in a quiver of solutions. It should not be seen as opposed to domestic production but a mechanism to make sure domestic production and energy efficiency are properly incentivized. Changing prices people pay is the one sure way to change waht and how we buy.

BTW, I've read the claims by Shell which are that shale oil is practical above $30/barrel. I also have pointed out that oil could one day be below $30/barrel again. Will Shell make the $5 billion investment in shale oil with that possibility hanging over their heads? An oil import tariff would indeed make it a less risky investment, and incentivize the movement to porduction there.


415 posted on 01/29/2006 7:51:51 AM PST by WOSG
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