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To: SunkenCiv
Look OPEC gets stronger if we raise prices of oil. the easiest way to do that is through taxes. the way to screw opec is through increases in domestic production. We do not have to replace very much. Just find the marginal amount and Katrina indicated the price is on a knife edge.

We need to drive prices down not up. Reduce the regulations. Build nukes. Explore, explore, explore.

We export because it is more efficient. Efficiency keeps prices down.

I have to say that if you want prices higher and US tax payers subsidizing the world you have found an ideal tool. A tariff helps opec. because world prices will go up. US consumers will pay the bills.
399 posted on 01/28/2006 10:07:18 PM PST by Sunnyflorida
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To: Sunnyflorida

"Look OPEC gets stronger if we raise prices of oil."

The world price of oil is *not* raised by demand-curtailing tariffs.

" the easiest way to do that is through taxes. the way to screw opec is through increases in domestic production."

Yes, domestic production. yet you can't seem to grasp that the one sure way to do that is to put tariffs on oil imports so that the domestic supply has a greater incentive for production. The is economics 101 - if we want energy independence, discourage oil dependency actions through taxes.

"We need to drive prices down not up. Reduce the regulations. Build nukes. Explore, explore, explore"

I agree that we need to drive ENERGY prices down as a whole.
But the way to do that would be to (a) tax oil imports and (b) use the funds raised to help encourage domestic energy production, for example nuclear power plants, drilling, etc.

America could actually be an energy exporter in a post-oil-world. (Electricty to Canada and Mexico).

"I have to say that if you want prices higher and US tax payers subsidizing the world you have found an ideal tool. A tariff helps opec. because world prices will go up."

Actually what would destroy OPEC's pricing power for about 20 years would be an end to increased demand for oil.
An oil
Also, it is simply wrong to say the *world* prices would go up. Taxing the oil imports would reduce demand, which in turn would reduce prices.

"US consumers will pay the bills." Overall, it would be higher bill, but the money would stay in the US, reducing our trade and budget deficits. By encouraging domestic energy, it would give incentives for American jobs.
This is old-fashioned protectionism. I normally oppose it, but in this case you have an industry that is now 70% imported; it's the kind of industry where protectionism actually works.


408 posted on 01/29/2006 7:13:01 AM PST by WOSG
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To: Sunnyflorida
I have to say that if you want prices higher and US tax payers subsidizing the world you have found an ideal tool. A tariff helps opec. because world prices will go up. US consumers will pay the bills.

How would a drop in demand for oil cause prices to go up for OPEC while at the same time we subsidize the rest of the world? We are subsidizing the rest of the world right now, a tariff would remove the subsidy.
410 posted on 01/29/2006 7:29:23 AM PST by fallujah-nuker (America needs more SAC and less empty sacs.)
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To: Sunnyflorida

"OPEC gets stronger if we raise prices of oil. the easiest way to do that is through taxes."

Wrong. It raises the price domestically, leading to a higher but stable price, and builds in a margin to make domestic production profitable. Increases in supply (and/or conservation technology, non-liquid sources of petroleum, and in some cases alt fuels) follow, leading to a downward spiral in prices.

Of course, the Chinese increase in demand will grow, and that will mitigate that.

It should be noted that the Chinese increase in demand will happen regardless of whether the US drives toward energy independence and energy surplus. Selling energy to Europe and China could happen, but if in the form of petroleum, it will be taxed on the way out the door. That is as it should be -- since we're a net consumer of petroleum, we have no business exporting it (apart from foreign policy, support for democracy).


453 posted on 01/29/2006 7:00:06 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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