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To: orionblamblam

I'm still not sure I can agree. Even at the height of slavery, there were those disagreed with it and fought against it. What was their reading of the Bible? Also, almost all cultures including non-Judeo-Christian ones practiced it, so they didn't come at it from a Biblical justification. And of course, we have the case of Nazi Germany, which enslaved people and used them as slave labor, even though they were as technologically advanced as anyone (if not moreso, depending on who you believe). And they were Christian/Lutheran. I'll have to ponder this some more to get a coherant argument one way or the other. But for now, the economic angle seems to work for me. As you said, "Slaves are just tools." You're right, and what do you do when you get a better tools to replace the older one? Chainsaw vs. axe., washing machine vs. washboard, etc.


14 posted on 01/27/2006 12:21:02 PM PST by Clock King ("How will it end?" - Emperor; "In Fire." - Kosh)
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To: Clock King

> Even at the height of slavery, there were those disagreed with it and fought against it. What was their reading of the Bible?

The Bible was used by both sides in the slavery debate. The Old Testament says nothing bad about slavery, while mentioning it fairly often; the New Testament says virtually nothing about slavery at all.

> we have the case of Nazi Germany, which enslaved people and used them as slave labor...

Yes, because it made economic sense to do so, thus flippign morality around again. It didn't hurt that they could simply declare the slaves "non-humans." A terribly effective way of bypassing many moral codes.

> And they were Christian/Lutheran.

Much of Germany was, yes. But the leadership... not so much. Hitler was just plain nuts, and bought into late 19th/early 20th century theosophical Madame Blavatsky wackiness about ascended masters and Golden Ages and Atlantis and whatnot. Nevertheless, whiel the Nazi leadership was not Christian by any reasonable definition, it wasn't Hitler and Goering out there running the ovens.

> and what do you do when you get a better tools to replace the older one? Chainsaw vs. axe.

I have an axe (several, actually) but no chain saw. "Better" is often subjective.

As to the specifics of slavery: you get a wide range of results. In some places, when slavery stopped making economic + moral sense, it simply ended with the passage ofa few laws and the freeing of the slaves (the slave states in the North, frex). But in other places, you got things like The War Of Southern Aggression. And had Hitler won WWII... most of the slaves, once their utility in the war industry ended, they'd likely been turned into fertilizer or ash.

But it's never a good idea to try to get a good grasp on concepts of reality by looking at the Third Reich. Them boys was *nuts.*


16 posted on 01/27/2006 12:48:02 PM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: Clock King
...we have the case of Nazi Germany, which enslaved people and used them as slave labor, even though they were as technologically advanced as anyone (if not moreso, depending on who you believe). And they were Christian/Lutheran.

The National Socialists were pagans at war with the Judaic culture.

The National Socialists exterminated twice as many Christians as they did Jews.

The occultism of the Third Reich is well documented.

25 posted on 01/27/2006 6:17:05 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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