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Fairfax Police Say Shooting Was Accident
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/25/AR2006012502245.html ^

Posted on 01/26/2006 2:14:15 PM PST by vrwc0915

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To: vrwc0915

This smells - was the optometrist just placing some sports bets, or was he running a book?

I would be interested as to what the results of this investigation would be.


61 posted on 01/26/2006 6:49:28 PM PST by Fido969 ("Everybody out of the pool!")
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To: Fido969

It's likely he was running a book (though I can't say for sure.) I haven't checked the records but I haven't heard of there being a death sentence for that.

Is there ANY indication (usually if there is, the police will come out with any info to protect their reputation, even if they have to manufacture it) that a SWAT team was needed and that guns had to be drawn, I think we would have heard of it by now.


62 posted on 01/26/2006 6:55:23 PM PST by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: takenoprisoner

"America has gone insane. "

Our government, at all levels, has gone insane. They are drunk with power.


63 posted on 01/26/2006 6:58:42 PM PST by dljordan
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To: GovernmentShrinker

"I think it's safe to say that the victim was no angel, and there was good reason to have guns drawn when preparing to arrest him. Guys who are raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars from running illegal gambling operations usually do travel armed."

Obviously state govs that run gambling rings (lottos) are no angels...and when these same cops go after state legislators who provide gambling operations thru out the state raking in millions, be sure to remind them to have their guns drawn...Afterall, they too are dangerous criminals...according to your insane (il)logic.
.


64 posted on 01/26/2006 7:04:21 PM PST by takenoprisoner
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To: riverrunner
On target! The lines have been blurred. Police have taken on a military operating protocol, while the military is asked to perform according to police standards. Our government can't tell the difference between a criminal act and an act of war.
65 posted on 01/26/2006 7:19:11 PM PST by ArmyTeach (Pray daily for our troops.)
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To: takenoprisoner; Skywalk

I totally disapprove of state-sponsored gambling, and of the deceptive political campaigns to get voters or legislators to authorize them, which always promise that "education" or "the elderly" will benefit -- until the following year's budget, when those programs get shortchanged from the regular trough, as politicans note that they get a lot of money from the lottery.

But I'm not aware of any state lottery program whose officials engage in roughing up or killing the participants, to collect cash from them. The same cannot be said of operators of professional-scale illegal gambling activities. Again, I think it's safe to say that police had good reason to believe this guy might be armed and might put up armed resistance to arrest. And that he had been targeted for investigation and arrested for more serious matters than just book-making.

I don't really agree with laws that restrict private gambling operations, but the way to deal with that is through the legislative process -- not by looking other way while often violent criminals take advantage of the lack of legal competition for this business, and run operations in a way that would be violating all sorts of laws if any other business did the same. Did this guy pay income taxes on the $350,000 in his safe deposit box? I doubt it. And again, I don't approve of federal income taxes, and regard even state and local taxes as constitutionally questionable, but we need to deal with that problem in the prescribed manner, not by advocating that law enforcement ignore large scale cheaters.


66 posted on 01/26/2006 7:30:22 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: dljordan

"Our government, at all levels, has gone insane. They are drunk with power."

And they abuse it without accountability.


67 posted on 01/26/2006 7:30:59 PM PST by takenoprisoner
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To: GovernmentShrinker

"Did this guy pay income taxes on the $350,000 in his safe deposit box? I doubt it."

I have no idea...but if you are going to make a charge like your above you should provide the source.

Regardless, now I wonder if someone other than myself knows how much is in my unsafety deposit box? Is there no privacy left on the planet?


68 posted on 01/26/2006 7:43:35 PM PST by takenoprisoner
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To: atomicpossum
Should the gun have even been drawn?

In an analogous situation, a citizen with a CHL would be pilloried and charged with at least involuntary manslaughter, if not negligent homicide. At least in most jurisdictions.

69 posted on 01/27/2006 9:33:11 PM PST by El Gato (The Second Amendment is the Reset Button of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: Gordongekko909
What, then would be the proper way to arrest people?

While it obviously depends on the situation, coming in like the Israelis raiding Hamas, is not my idea of normal police action. The guy was, at best, a bookie. You use intelligence and discretion. You know your 'target'. Most arrests in most jurisdictions were once made by knocking on the door *and waiting for the residents to answer it*, not by breaking the door down and charging in with guns drawn. When not necessary, that gets people killed, including police officers, at least in jurisdictions where law abiding ordinary folks are armed.

Case in point, Mt. Carmel, Waco Texas, where the local sheriff could have easily knocked on the door and arrested Koresh, except for the minor problem of his not being the subject of an arrest warrant. Even the BATF could have done that. Instead they went in with three trailers full of agents, armed with M-16s, and starting the "search" by shooting the dogs and breaking into an upper floor room well away from the front door.

70 posted on 01/27/2006 9:41:06 PM PST by El Gato (The Second Amendment is the Reset Button of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: Squantos

Lubbock SWAT disease is spreading.


Pecos has a SWAT team now, I see their van while passing by on the interstate, we however have a big RV.


71 posted on 01/27/2006 9:51:39 PM PST by razorback-bert
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To: GovernmentShrinker
But I'm not aware of any state lottery program whose officials engage in roughing up or killing the participants, to collect cash from them. The same cannot be said of operators of professional-scale illegal gambling activities. Again, I think it's safe to say that police had good reason to believe this guy might be armed and might put up armed resistance to arrest. And that he had been targeted for investigation and arrested for more serious matters than just book-making.

Making that up from whole cloth aren't you ? The story gives absolutely no indication that the police suspected any such thing. Notice that they immediately, without an investigation, issued an apology to the guy's family. I don't think they'd do that if they thought the guy was "roughing up or killing the participants, to collect cash from them."

72 posted on 01/27/2006 9:53:15 PM PST by El Gato (The Second Amendment is the Reset Button of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: razorback-bert

Pecos NM ?!?!?!?


73 posted on 01/27/2006 9:53:15 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: Squantos

Texas, pop 9001.


74 posted on 01/28/2006 6:10:25 AM PST by razorback-bert
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To: albertp; Allosaurs_r_us; Abram; AlexandriaDuke; Americanwolf; Annie03; Baby Bear; bassmaner; ...
only the police and armed forces should have guns because they are the only ones that can be trusted to use them safely. sarah bradys favorite quote

Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here

75 posted on 01/30/2006 6:58:25 AM PST by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: freepatriot32
It gets worse.

Apparently, Fairfax County uses SWAT to serve ALL search warrants.

"Although police and firearms authorities were divided yesterday on whether SWAT teams are needed for most search warrants, as is Fairfax's practice, they agreed on another point: Officers carrying guns should not aim directly at anyone or have their fingers on the trigger until they are absolutely ready to fire."

Washington Post

76 posted on 01/30/2006 11:15:27 AM PST by elkfersupper
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To: vrwc0915
But Perez said police had to be prepared for any possibility, because "the unexpected can occur."

Tragically ironic.

77 posted on 01/30/2006 11:27:26 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: elkfersupper

WOW! Thats effective use of resources. Our standing army is here!


78 posted on 01/30/2006 11:42:09 AM PST by vrwc0915 ("Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants,)
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To: vrwc0915

Scary.


79 posted on 01/30/2006 12:23:10 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: elkfersupper; All
"Stuart A. Meyers, head of OpTac International, which trains police and counterterrorism tactical squads worldwide, said threat assessments should be done before search warrants are served. But because SWAT officers are better trained and equipped, Meyers said, "SWAT teams should serve, in our opinion, almost all search warrants with the exception of document searches and low-level search warrants."

No vested intrest here nope none at all

80 posted on 01/30/2006 12:45:15 PM PST by vrwc0915 ("Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants,)
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