For some strange reason, the hostages all seemed to have died from natural causes. The gas was apparantly just a coincidence.
Gubareva has reason to believe that her little girl was suffocated under a pile of unconscious victims on board one of those well-staffed buses.
Looking over some of her papers, many of the deceased victims received no medical assistance whatsoever. Her daughter's autopsy showed that she'd been intubated, and had some injections, but, 40 had no signs of medical intervention. Such as Igor Fingenov, whose physician-magician arrived at the scene an hour before being summoned, and managed to give an intra-cardial injection without making a hole in Fingenov's body.
There was a critical hour lost, between the 'neutralization' of the last terrorist and beginning of hostage evacuation. This article They gave no order to save gives some details on that.
Martin Furmanski, a pathologist and supposedly an expert on chemical warfare (apparantly wrote a book on Japanese atrocities in China) took a look at Gubareva's 'Nord-Ost' documents, and said:
"The hostages that stop breathing have only a few minutes before the lack of oxygen causes severe brain damage, and ultimately death. They need to be identified, removed from the gas cloud, and given antidotes, artificial respiration, or full CPR. Clearly with hundreds of hostages and a crowded theater, this medical care is very, very difficult to provide rapidly enough to save hostages."Most experts think that it was Fentanyl used, and Mark Wheelis, a physiologist at UC Davis said this about it:
"We don't know the agent used, or what kind of safety testing it had received. Thus we are not in a position to evaluate the Russian claim that the agent was completely safe. No known agents of the Fentanyl class are safe enough to use in an enclosed space to produce unconsciousness without immediate medical support. Even if the Russians had discovered a new agent with vastly greater safety than existing Fentanyls, in using it in the field (especially against a population that was mostly sitting) they should have anticipated deaths from positional asphyxiation or from aspiration of vomit. In addition, significant levels of permanent injury should have been expected, such as brain damage from hypoxia, and lung damage from aspiration of vomit."BBC did a special on the gas (transcript here), and their experts state that it was not Fentanyl or any known derivative, which is probably why the Russians keep so mum about it.
Also interesting how no one can agree on how many hostages were taken (800 in one place, 1000 in another) or died (129? 174?), or even how many terrorists were in the theater. The Moscow police wrote a report listing fifty-two, but only forty terrorist bodies were recovered. This article: Where did 12 terrorists go? goes into that question.
A real strange topic, and 100% Russian.
Thanks for the info and links.
Living at the address:
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The Netherlands,
Telephone: ----------------
GSM: -----------------
Description of events at the Dubrovka theatrical center in the city of Moscow, October 23-26, 2002
On October 23, 2002, my wife, Natalya Zhirova, and our 14- year-old son, Dmitriy, went to the musical 'Nord-Ost'. I, Oleg Zhirov, learned of the theater's seizure by terrorists from the television. I got dressed and within 15 minutes was at Dubrovka. I received the first call from my wife on my mobile phone as I was nearing the parking area by Dubrovka. It was about 10 PM on October 23rd.
Confusion reigned at Dubrovka. I immediately contacted police officers, who, naturally, ‘sent me packing’ and requested that I did not bother them with my information. After this, I contacted S.V. Yastrzhembskiy, who was the Russian president’s representative and in charge at Dubrovka during those hours. He permitted me to remain within the cordon that the police and military officers were setting up around the scene, and briefed me every half-hour about whatever he knew. Before my very eyes, his assistant asked him what they should tell the media. Yastrzhembskiy answered: "Tell them that the Chechens demand money." Within a half-hour, radio station Echo of Moscow, TV station NTV, and other media outlets transmitted this information into ether. Thus the disinformation was born.
About a half-hour later, Yastrzhembskiy went up to some members of the press, and promised to tell them frankly all that was going on. A meeting spot was set up in the square just outside the cordoned off area.
At this time, THEY SHUT OFF ALL MOBILE PHONE COMMUNICATIONS AT DUBROVKA! With regards to this, when journalists asked why they had cut off all mobile phone communications, S.V. Yastrzhembskiy smiled, joked maliciously: “Your cell phones don’t work? That’s strange, mine work.” Why the special services found it necessary to shut off all the cell phones is not understood. So that no one could contact those who were in the seized theater?
Communications were restored after two or three hours, and my wife was able to contact me a second time. She and my son gave me information on the number of foreign hostages, which I gave to representatives of the foreign press, and the Dutch embassy. All journalists, other than representatives from the television station ORT, who probably were otherwise informed) arrived at the spot Yastrzhembskiy had designated for his press conference, at the assigned time. The conference did not take place, however. Yastrzhembskiy gave an interview to journalists from ORT in a different location. The other reporters had been tricked into leaving the cordon, and were never allowed back inside. After this, no representatives of the media were right next to ‘Nord-Ost’ any longer; the building was now outside their line of sight.
By midnight the generals had arrived, and they did not talk with Yastrzhembskiy at all. He was assigned, probably, another duty. The role of ‘dezinformator’, the purveyor of disinformation. It easy to see that, from the very beginning, the military and secret services were preparing something which the rest of us had no need to know about, and without attempting to establish contact with the hostages. I figured out that from the night of October 23-24 onward, Yastrzhembskiy knew nothing, and was not going to help in any way, besides spreading disinformation. I began to look for Dutch journalists, and tried to contact the embassy.
My brother, who at that time worked for FAPSI (the federal government communications and communications intelligence agency), helped me contact the staff of the ‘Alpha’, the anti-terrorism force. They advised me to call Natalya and Dima, and tell them that they should mention the name of that special force’s operational planning commander, assuring me that Natasha and Dima would be left alone after that. I immediately understood what this could lead to. If they had done this, then Natasha and Dima would have been the first to be shot by the terrorists, and that this was probably what ‘Alpha’ in the first place. After this, I no longer tried to contact ‘Alpha’, Yastrzhembskiy, or any other of the authorities.
October 24th was generally a terrible day. They broke off the first negotiations. Yastrzhembskiy was keeping some foreign diplomats in a building commandeered expressly for this purpose, in expectation of negotiations. He did not allow them to obtain information from the hostages or their relatives, or the terrorists, who themselves were attempting to release some hostages on the morning on the 24th. The terrorists had made a new demand – if relatives of the hostages were to hold a demonstration on Red Square, then they would release the children. The government did not permit it. OMON paramilitaries used rifle butts to chase away grandmothers and grandfathers, who were holding up signs with the tears on the eyes. I was overcome with fury and malice.
On the morning of the 24th, I strictly by chance met Zaur Talkhigov near the Dubrovka building. We started up a conversation, in the course of which I learned that Talkhigov was a Chechen, and knew Barayev. He had gone to the Dubrovka building at the request of the Moscow Chechen community, with no official pass, or money, etc., guided only by a desire: “to render assistance in establishing contact with the terrorists, in order to get the hostages released.” Contact was established after awhile, and I spoke with Zaur about the possibility of getting my wife and son released. I asked him repeatedly: “Zaur, please, let’s think of something, anything. I’m ready to take my wife’s or my son’s place.” Zaur said that he would do it. A woman journalist ran up to us at this time: “Zaur, a phone call for you. It’s the FSB duty officer. The FSB staff duty officer is calling.” So they invited him to the staff headquarters. I accompanied him to the police cordon personally, and saw someone come out of the headquarters and conduct him into the building. Talkhigov was now the center of attention. The Russian politicians Yavlinskiy, Nemtsov, Kobzon, etc., together with FSB officers, representatives of the government, and foreign journalists, used Zaur as a mediator in the negotiations. Many thought he was from the FSB. In reality, though, all he could do was call the hostage-takers by phone. I called up Zaur regularly, and was interested in the state of affairs, but there were no changes.
Talkhigov and I stayed up together on the night of October 24-25. At one point, he said I needed to go to the Internet cafe on the Manezh. I asked him how he would get there without papers. "(FSB chief) Patrushev signed this paper for me, no cop will arrest me,” he replied. “But since there’s no money, I’ll have to go on foot.” I offered him money for a taxi, and he said: “I won’t take any from you. Because then you’ll think I’m helping you for the money.” “You fool,” I said. “You’re the only one who can do something about his situation. I’m afraid to let you go at all.” Nevertheless, I managed to persuade him to take some money for a taxi, and he returned in an hour. We spend a sleepless night together in conversation, about how to help the hostages. I asked him again: “How can we contact Barayev?" Talkhigov look straight up me and said: “You know, Oleg, they are very good Moslems. They won’t do anything bad to the hostages. I think they have a different use for them. But they don’t entrust me. They think I’m from the FSB, and they don’t speak openly with me.”
Then I got an idea. I called up my wife again. It asked her to get one of the gunmen. I said that a Chechen wanted to talk to them. My son later told me that a masked terrorist came up, took the phone, went to a corner of the music hall, and talked in the Chechen language for a long time with Talkhigov. The Chechen even tried to give the phone to Barayev, but Barayev refused.
As soon as we had finished, someone called back on the very same cell phone: "Oh, will you will excuse me. I’m a Russian journalist, I dialed the wrong number.” How, I wondered, did a Russian journalist get my private Dutch telephone number??? As it later turned out, from this moment on, my telephone was under surveillance.
Natasha then called. “Oleg, they reseated us into the first row, and they said that if the Dutch ambassador comes tomorrow at 9 in the morning, with journalists, then us they will let go.” After discussing this with Dutch journalists, and the political adviser from the Dutch embassy, I again called Natasha’s number. A Chechen answered. From that point on, the Chechens had my wife’s telephone, and Zaur discussed the details of my family’s release with them.
On the morning of the 25th, the diplomats arrived again. Yastrzhembskiy said that foreigners would be released all at once. This was not the truth, however, since Barayev had said that embassy officials could only take citizens from their own country. The government once again was exploiting disinformation. Someone did not want foreign hostages released. When, later in the day, the diplomats had left, representatives from the Ukrainian government contacted Zaur. They said that they were told to obtain the release of Ukrainian hostages from Barayev though Zaur. By midday, Zaur got the terrorists to agree to release the Ukrainian hostages. After awhile, I asked to speak with Barayev, to discuss the details of the release with him. I was going to promise him, that he could give my wife a message to send to the Dutch information agency RUSNET, which they could report to the outside world. I dialed Natasha’s number, and to my surprise she picked up the phone. It was our last conversation. It seemed to me that she and my son would soon be released. She gave the phone to the Chechens, and I gave mine to Zaur, and he talked at great length. I remember that he slipped a few Russian words in among the Chechen he was speaking: OMON, snipers, BTR, and so on. However, everything that he was saying could be seen by anyone who was standing there at Dubrovka.
Soon after this conversation, he was arrested. All negotiations concerning the release of hostages ceased at the time of his arrest, and the FSB conducted negotiations directly with the terrorists.
Zaur and I had twice negotiated the release of foreign hostages, and the ambassadors had arrived. They taken to a separate building, where they sat and waited, and then Yastrzhembskiy told the diplomats that Barayev allegedly would not negotiate. This, however, had absolutely no basis in reality, because Barayev had personally requested of Zaur: "Let the ambassador of Holland come, and I will free the Dutch. Other ambassadors come, I’ll let others go.” Someone greatly desired that the foreign hostages were not released, and so they arrested Zaur, stopped the negotiations, and conducted an assault.
Consequently, speaking as the main witness at Zaur’s trial, I described his efforts. According to the attorney general, the FSB, ironically, by chance only had one recording of Zaur’s telephone conversations, and it was precisely the one where he spoke about the disposition of the OMON officers, the BTRs, and the special forces. All Zaur’s other telephone negotiations about releasing the hostages, according the FSB, had been destroyed. In this manner, proving Zaur’s innocence was impossible. He was sentenced 7 years in prison.
On the morning of October 26th, I found my son Dima quickly. My wife, Natasha, even though I turned over half of Moscow, could not in any way be located. Officially, at 9 AM, no foreign hostages had died, and no tally was provided for a long time. On the night of October 26-27, I again turned to my brother, who worked for FAPSI. A college friend of his, who worked on the operational staff of ‘Alpha’, starting looking for my wife, since he had access to those places usually closed to the public. Through these two, Natasha was located in a morgue of one of the Moscow hospitals.
Abusing by his authority, he talked FSB officers at the hospital into letting us in. Together with the ambassador and political adviser from the Dutch embassy, we arrived at 8 A.M. on October 27th to identify her body, but by then they had transported her to the Botkin Hospital. On the way to this hospital, while listening to the radio, we learned that the corpse of the first foreigner known to have died at Dubrovka had been identified – Natalya Zhirova. At Botkin, FSB officers were already waiting for us, and they said that if wanted to have Natasha released quickly for burial, then we must not ask too many questions. I agreed. According to the coroner’s report, she had died in the theater hall. It was determined later that she had died in the hospital without receiving medical assistance.
For assisting in the search for my wife, my brother was discharged from his job at FAPSI.
After the assault, I was questioned by two young investigators, one from the FSB, and another from the attorney general’s office. They only included in their report that which they found useful to themselves. I told them at the time that they were doing nothing useful. They tried to bring me in for questioning again, but I consulted with my embassy and refused.
I have never received an official letter, or condolences, from the Russian government or Russian embassy. When colleagues from the Dutch company, where my wife worked as engineer, tried to attend her funeral in Moscow, the Russian embassy did not grant them a visa until the last minute, and only after her colleagues had threatened to sic the Dutch press on the embassy.
While I was participating in Zaur’s trial, the Russian embassy rejected my entrance visa, and did not grant one until NTV, and the Russian and Dutch press reported that "the chief witness cannot get a visa."
I later participated in other ‘Nord-Ost’ trials. Twice I was served with subpoenas. The court consequently refused to compensate me for the expenditures connected with my trips to Russia to participation in these sessions. This judicial lawlessness is but another example of what is going on with the ‘Nord-Ost’ affair in Russia.
The text was personally written by me on January 19th, 2006.
Oleg Alexandrovich Zhirov, age 41
Citizen of the Netherlands,
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The Netherlands
As the proof of what I have written, I present the documentary by Dutch journalist Peyter Damekura, "Russia Held Hostage" and videos from Dutch television, made on October 23-26, 2002.
The Moscow police
wrote a report listing fifty-two, but only forty terrorist bodies were
recovered. This article: Where did 12 terrorists go? goes into that
question.<<<<
Where did they go?
Are these the ones that stayed in the outer areas?