You know, it's funny. If you were walking in the dessert, and you saw a $12,000 Rolex ticking away on the ground, you wouldn't say- "gee, I guess the sun heated the sand of trillions of years, and through light refraction and molecular blah-blah this watch must have risen up out of the quartz"- or some such. you'd say- "Hey look- somebody dropped a watch."
Or if you went to the beach, and you had a LOT of time on your hands- how long would you have to wait for a perfectly functional PC with a perfectly functional copy of Windows XP to rise up out of the sea? A billion years? A gazillion? How about never.
And the "simplest" cell (there are no simple single cells), is about a quintillion times more advanced technologically than a silly personal computer.
My point being that when you look into the mirror, you are looking at some wildly, ungodly advanced hardware/software, and you can either make up a story liek the American Indians-- "First, Raven dropped the seed of life onto the back of Turtle in the River of Life, and blah-blah ( insert nonsensical scientific data), or you can say-- "wow- who made this?"
Note that "Raven" is as valid an answer to "who made this" as anything else.
Don't tell me the magnificent rings around Saturn was not created by an intelligent creator.
How can such ring "evolve"? If the nature evolved the rings, why didn't the same nature evolve a ring around my finger? Why did I have to use a ring created by a jeweler?
My point being that when you look into the mirror, you are looking at some wildly, ungodly advanced hardware/software, and you can either make up a story liek the American Indians-- "First, Raven dropped the seed of life onto the back of Turtle in the River of Life, and blah-blah ( insert nonsensical scientific data), or you can say-- "wow- who made this?"Ummmmmmmm... You are very... wise.
Re: your odd idea that evolutionists would expect watches to spring from deserts and operating systems to emerge from beaches..
Where do you ever get that idea? See, the cells and organisms you compare to watches and computers are self replicating. They "spawn," for lack of a better term. You need this to capability to evolve. As far as I know, watches and computers do not self replicate.
And furthermore, the "silly" Raven story you pass off so easily predates your particular creation myth. not that it matters one iota, but thought you'd enjoy that.
Ask yourself why we would recognize it, then apply those 'rules' to organics.
"Or if you went to the beach, and you had a LOT of time on your hands- how long would you have to wait for a perfectly functional PC with a perfectly functional copy of Windows XP to rise up out of the sea? A billion years? A gazillion? How about never.
This is a rather poor and overused analogy. Since when do PC's or any other human created technology self replicate. Which human creations inherit features and functions from their precursors and pass through a selection process? If you can think of any, do they look the same as the original? Why? Can you think of any human artifact that had a different function than some of its descendants? Can the selection process cause changes in the function and features of an artifact?
"And the "simplest" cell (there are no simple single cells), is about a quintillion times more advanced technologically than a silly personal computer.
Technological? Jump to conclusions much?
" My point being that when you look into the mirror, you are looking at some wildly, ungodly advanced hardware/software, and you can either make up a story liek the American Indians-- "First, Raven dropped the seed of life onto the back of Turtle in the River of Life, and blah-blah ( insert nonsensical scientific data), or you can say-- "wow- who made this?"
Nice try, but very condescending.
Here is one of the many stories featuring Raven.
No one knows just how the story of Raven really begins, so each starts from the point where he does know it. Here it was always begun in this way. Raven was first called Kit-ka'ositiyi-qa-yit ("Son of Kit-ka'ositiyi-qa"). When his son was born, Kit-ka'ositiyi-qa tried to instruct him and train him in every way and, after he grew up, told him he would give him strength to make a world. After trying in all sorts of ways, Raven finally succeeded. Then there was no light in this world, but it was told him that far up the Nass was a large house in which some one kept light just for himself.This story is very long. The rest can be accessed at: http://www.indigenouspeople.net/creatlingit.htmRaven thought over all kinds of plans for getting this light into the world and finally he hit on a good one. The rich man living there had a daughter, and he thought, "I will make myself very small and drop into the water in the form of a small piece of dirt." The girl swallowed this dirt and became pregnant. When her time was completed, they made a hole for her, as was customary, in which she was to bring forth, and lined it with rich furs of all sorts. But the child did not wish to be born on those fine things. Then its grandfather felt sad and said, "What do you think it would be best to put into that hole? Shall we put in moss?" So they put moss inside and the baby was born on it. Its eyes were very bright and moved around rapidly.
Round bundles of varying shapes and sizes hung about on the walls of the house. When the child became a little larger it crawled around back of the people weeping continually, and as it cried it pointed to the bundles. This lasted many days. Then its grandfather said, "Give my grandchild what he is crying for. Give him that one hanging on the end. That is the bag of stars." So the child played with this, rolling it about on the floor back of the people, until suddenly he let it go up through the smoke hole. It went straight up into the sky and the stars scattered out of it, arranging themselves as you now see them. That was what he went there for.
Some time after this he began crying again, and he cried so much that it was thought he would die . Then his grandfather said, " Untie the next one and give it to him." He played and played with it around behind his mother. After a while he let that go up through the smoke hole also, and there was the big moon.
Sounds like an oxymoron to me.
hi wcb. That analogy is very compelling on the surface. However, the comparison ends at the molecular level. At that level, there are natural processes that produce ordered, self assembled systems. They follow their own chemical paths. No need for a guiding hand. A watch, or a computer, are not the result of molecular self assembly.
How about the story made up by the ancient Hebrews?? It's hysterical!! It has talking snakes, magic fruit, a petulant god punishing people for building a tall building, a woman being turned into a pillar of salt, a worldwide flood... I wonder what they were smoking when they made up that story.