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Farewell to the GOP, for now at least! (Vanity Rant)
6-21-2006 | Mr. Hammer

Posted on 01/23/2006 5:51:10 AM PST by mr_hammer

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To: Cboldt
Good blast from the past, that thread you linked. Thanks - I got a kick out of it - don't recall seeing it before, but have heard references to JR's past "anti-Bush" sentiment (and I recall seeing him "take it back" later, too).

I believe he did take it back, but I wasn't meaning to link to the first part of that thread, but rather from about #12 on back - this is the proper link - it got into a heated discussion of Conservatives and the GOP, and this was 1999 - interesting that some of the same issues come up now - Conservatives and their place in the GOP.
261 posted on 01/23/2006 1:46:24 PM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: yarddog

Anyone who thinks that sending back his RNC card and a snotty reply to a directmail company hired to generate fundraising, is too stupid to be a Republican. If no money is in the reply envelope...it's discarded. No one reads his stupid rant.


262 posted on 01/23/2006 1:50:17 PM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: mr_hammer

Put the letter in a drawer and forget about it.


263 posted on 01/23/2006 1:53:08 PM PST by RGSpincich
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To: af_vet_rr
I wasn't meaning to link to the first part of that thread, but rather from about #12 on back ...

I saw that too. It's a perennial argument. "Move to the right." "NO! Move to the center." "We don't need your votes anyway." Etc. And of course, the ever popular, "I get to wear the [conservative|base] label, not you and your ilk."

I'm looking forward to new epithets. ;-)

264 posted on 01/23/2006 1:57:10 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: MACVSOG68
It can do nothing we do not consent to.

We(meaning the "free traders" in the white house and congress and the USTR) have consented to allow the WTO to levy fines against us, and they decide the amount. And they have done so. By international tribunal, which is unconstitutional, I might add.
265 posted on 01/23/2006 1:59:27 PM PST by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: WhiteGuy
Your logical flaw lies in the assumption that the "3 votes" that were cast for the libertarian candidate were actually taken away from bush.

I respectfully disagree with you. If the dissatisfied Republican decides to vote for a 3rd party INSTEAD of the vote they would have given Bush - then yes, that vote was taken away from Bush. It's got nothing to do with a "pool of votes committed to Bush". If a Bush voter decides to vote for someone else, then Bush has lost that vote. Seems logical to me.

266 posted on 01/23/2006 2:00:37 PM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: MACVSOG68
I simply asked you for the references to the sovereignty and constitutional claims you made.

U.S. LUMBER INDUSTRY CHALLENGING THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF NAFTA DISPUTE SETTLEMENT SYSTEM
267 posted on 01/23/2006 2:02:50 PM PST by hedgetrimmer ("I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: Deb
I am not going to vote for a democrat unless it were Zell Miller, but I am more than fed up witht the Republicans too.

I mean I have had it up to here with their backstabbing liberal policies.

The country is being overrun with illegals and the Republicans are not only not doing the right thing they are aiding the illegals. Don't believe it, I will show you a bunch any time you want to see them.

Bush has banned more guns by the pen, through his suboridinates and let the BATFE go back to their illegal habits.

Fed up with them? Getting to hate them is more like it.

268 posted on 01/23/2006 2:02:54 PM PST by yarddog
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To: Paloma_55

GREAT POST!


269 posted on 01/23/2006 2:04:32 PM PST by Howlin
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To: af_vet_rr
That's just it though - we voted in a President and Congress who promised limited government - we've had 5 years of Republican control of both, and we had Republicans coming into Congress 1994, and they all promised reduced federal spending, and we got the opposite, only now not only do we have the opposite, we have people, incumbents, who are not going to be easy to root out - keep in mind a politicians most important job, as far as they are concerned, is to win the next election, or help a buddy win the next election.

A couple of points. First, you are correct that a Republican Congress and executive did not curb spending. It has been shown that whenever the same party controlled both houses, the same thing happened. Spending is only curbed when party competition exists. Second, how do you change the election cycle to prevent your concern for winning the next election?

History also reflects that the parties change over time, that new parties replace old. It used to not to be the Republicans and Democrats, and each party is radically different than it was when they were first created.

True, but the last party to hold any significant office was the Whig which collapsed in 1856. The Republican Party began with very liberal roots. Hopefully that is not what you want to return to. When it went totally conservative in 1964 with the help of the Dixiecrats, it lost miserably.

Personally there are a lot of things that need fixing like the borders and Agriculture spending for example. But the Republicans are doing some good things. Tax cuts, refusal to go along with Kyoto, the war on terror, the Patriot Act for examples. The economy is good, my security is being protected, my grandchildren have opportunities I never dreamed of. I keep the problems in perspective when I look at the rest of the world.

270 posted on 01/23/2006 2:04:58 PM PST by MACVSOG68
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To: mr_hammer



Boo f'in Hoo.

Lord have mercy on the whiners. I cannot.


271 posted on 01/23/2006 2:06:26 PM PST by onyx
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To: hedgetrimmer
We(meaning the "free traders" in the white house and congress and the USTR) have consented to allow the WTO to levy fines against us, and they decide the amount. And they have done so. By international tribunal, which is unconstitutional, I might add.

I'm not sure how the agreement to accept fines is unconstitutional if Congress and the executive agree to do so.

272 posted on 01/23/2006 2:07:30 PM PST by MACVSOG68
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To: Cboldt
I saw that too. It's a perennial argument. "Move to the right." "NO! Move to the center." "We don't need your votes anyway." Etc. And of course, the ever popular, "I get to wear the [conservative|base] label, not you and your ilk."

I'm looking forward to new epithets. ;-)


You know, we might as well just cut and paste the arguments from the old threads, or even start responding in the old threads, because it will be the same arguments.
273 posted on 01/23/2006 2:14:58 PM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: mr_hammer

That's a great letter. I agree that President Bush and many republican congressmen are too liberal. If more Republicans wrote letters like yours, the RNC might try to persuade republican politicians to become more conservative.

In 2004, I thought that Bush was too liberal, so I voted for the Constitution Party candidate, Michael Peroutka. If I thought that the vote would be close in my state, Illinois, I would have voted for Bush. I didn't want to help split the conservative vote and help Kerry win IL. In Oct. '04, I predicted that Kerry would get 57% of the vote in IL, so I voted for the candidate with whom I agreed the most. Kerry got 57% of the vote in IL.


274 posted on 01/23/2006 2:26:54 PM PST by PhilCollins
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To: hedgetrimmer

I think you made my point. No agreement can supercede the Constitution, and we have a judiciary, executive and legislative that is still in control. If a provision is believed to be unconstitutional, then file a suit, as the lumber company did.


275 posted on 01/23/2006 2:37:31 PM PST by MACVSOG68
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To: mr_hammer

Despite the ra ra republicrat's ragging on you, you done good! I for one, am glad to see more of us standing up to the liars and the Big Govt "new conservatives" that now hold the power. Their day's are numbered. Blackbird.


276 posted on 01/23/2006 3:46:12 PM PST by BlackbirdSST (Diapers, like Politicians, need regular changing for the same reason!)
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To: mr_hammer

bttt


277 posted on 01/23/2006 4:12:59 PM PST by Harrius Magnus (Enemy #1 = The Leftist holy trinity of multiculturalism, moral equivalence and relativism.)
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To: Tokra
" If the dissatisfied Republican decides to vote for a 3rd party INSTEAD of the vote they would have given Bush - then yes, that vote was taken away from Bush."

Ok, here is the crux of our disagreement.

From your point of view there are a limited number of types of voters.

1. republicans
2. democrats
3. Independent / other
You automatically assume that a republican, even if dissatisfied with his or her choice of candidate, should vote for the republican candidate (a bush voter), and therefore if the voter casts a ballot for anyone else, that vote is considered "lost" and helps the opponent win.

This argument works equally well for the democrats.

Unfortunately, both are wrong.

I don't think we're going to agree on this.

However, how would you categorize a voter who changed their affiliation from "republican" to "independent"?

Does this change automatically "help" all democrats in all races in which that voter would vote?

Just wondering...............

278 posted on 01/23/2006 4:14:42 PM PST by WhiteGuy (Vote for gridlock)
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To: no dems; Howlin; StarFan
I'll still vote GOP rather than try to "send a message" because people who send a message are found in the "Loss" Column. Didn't we learn anything from the 1992 election when the Ross Perot votes gave us eight years of Bill and Hill?

AMEN.

279 posted on 01/23/2006 4:15:52 PM PST by nutmeg ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Hillary Clinton 6/28/04)
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To: mr_hammer

Maybe someone has a copy of the last 4 or 5 cycles of Republican Platforms so that can make an honest appraisal of what we've been paying for versus what we've gotten.


280 posted on 01/23/2006 4:19:03 PM PST by DoNotDivide (Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.)
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