Flag makes fort's Canadian liaison officer a target

Sierra Vista Herald, Sierra Vista Arizona ^ | Jan 22, 2006 | Bill Hess

[rlmorel]

Thank you for that link. I believe I stand corrected, but I think in this case it is irrelevant. If you read the Senate legal guidelines for this code at:

Senate Interpretation of Flag Display Guidelines

It states: "The Code is designed "for the use of such civilian groups or organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments" of the federal government.3 Thus, the Flag Code does not prescribe any penalties for non-compliance nor does it include enforcement provisions; rather the Code functions simply as a guide to be voluntarily followed by civilians and civilian groups."

My take on this is that it is a guideline, no more, to be followed by US Citizens, if they so desire, and must be followed by governmental organizations such as federal buildings etc.

This Canadian citizen described in the article is under no legal obligation to follow the guidelines, and neither are any Americans who do not wish to do so.

Interestingly, do you see a contradiction in the way this code was written?

No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof...

Just for the record, I have complete and utter respect for the symbolism of the US Flag. I served under it, and my father was buried in Arlington under it. I wish I could force others to feel as I do, but I understand their constitutional right to stamp their feet on it, as much as it enrages and hurts me to see.

[Phsstpok]

As the Canadian Military Liaison he has diplomatic status and his home by extension could be considered a diplomatic residence if I understand the rules correctly.

You don't understand the rules correctly.

Only embassy and consulate grounds are considered and treated as foreign soil (that includes buildings that house recognized embassies and consulates). He is living as a guest in base housing or in a normal house nearby, all on American soil. His flying of the Canadian flag, as if it were sovereign, is insulting and contrary to all diplomatic tradition. He is openly violating international norms and protocols and being deliberately provocative or he is incredibly ignorant and grossly unqualified for his post.

Contrary to his argument he would only be entitled to fly the Canadian flag while in the US as he does if Canada had beaten us in a war. We won a war in Iraq and Afghanistan and are thus entitled, but we have gone out of our way to never display just the US flag as a sign of respect. As a guest in our country he has no right to fly his flag alone (implying sovereignty) unless he is doing so in an officially recognized diplomatic compound. His home on a US base or in a US neighborhood emphatically does NOT qualify.

This was explained to me by the then legal adviser to the Irish Embassy at the UN as to why he flew both the US and Irish national flags outside his rental home next to my parent's house in Scarsdale, NY, when I was growing up. He later went on to be the Irish Ambassador to several countries, finishing up as Ambassador to the US and then the USSR. In this last post he acted as a friend of the US as Ronald Reagan's "honest broker" to set up the START meetings with Gorbachev. I'd say that career qualifies him as an authority on the subject, so I'll defer to him.

The Canuck is wrong and should either strike his colors or fly the US flag as prominently OR ABOVE the Canadian flag in order to show proper respect for his hosts. Having looked at the picture of this lard ass I don't think he has the proper respect for his own country, let alone ours, so I don't think he'll exhibit the class to do any such thing. Unfortunately he is all too typical of the whiny and spiteful "ugly Canadian" that is being presented to the best friends that Canada has ever had or ever will have.

Unless the election tomorrow makes for a very rapid and very public turn around in the public position of Canadians towards America and Americans I think that the Canadians are in for a very rough couple of decades as they find out just how well they can get along depending on their own capabilities. I think they'll find that they've been living off of a rich relative for a long time and it will be a rude awakening for them when they get cut off. It will be a bitch for us, but it will spell death for them.

[Spiff]

My understanding is that unless his home is an embassy he should not be flying the flag of another nation without the American flag also being flown. It annoyed me when my aunt and uncle flew the flag of Ireland with out also flying the US flag, so I've got nothing against Canada. (Throw the bums out Canada, btw and maybe we'll all be flying the Maple Leaf!)

I would never expect to live in a Canadian (or any nation except the USA) neighborhood and fly an American flag. I don't know why he expect that he could get away with flying a Canadian flag in an American neighborhood. I don't condone the harassment but I do think what he is doing is inappropriate.

[freedumb2003]

I think this is more anger at Canada's duplicitous treatment of the USA, especially the last 10 years' USA bashing, than at someone who is assigned here.

Canada has done significant damage to itself. I am sure tourism is down (I need to Google about to see how bad).

But if he is here on assignment and not because he has voluntarily relocated then this is just bad form by the local Yahoos.

[freedumb2003]

Thank you for seeing through him. I'll leave your site alone now.

That is some serious stuff you laid out there, little sister. I think running out is a little inappropriate. Can you authenticate yourself somehow?

[SandRat]

He is here officially as the Canadian Military Liaison with assigned duties to interface with the Military Intelligence Center & School. He is one of several that include Great Britain, Australia, and France. Additionally, Foreign Military Students attend the training, routinely from South Korea, Saudi Arabia, and there are students beginning to come from the former Soviet Satellite countries like Poland, Czech Republic, etc.

These FMLO all participate in the community Memorial Day, Veteran's Day Ceremonies in uniform to show their respect for all fallen. The French FMLO's son is in Cub Scouts here and having a blast.

While we may disparage the current governments of some of these FMLOs, these are all honorable men and military brothers that hold the same values that we do.

Yes, the locals doing this are Red-Neck Cracker Yokels and an embarrassment.

[freedumb2003]

Both of our posts are interesting and bring up important protocol issues.

I guess we have to fall back to rules of etiquette rather than protocol.

I think we have to agree that if someone has decided to fly their native country's flag "over" ours, we can certainly ask why and deride anyone who is here voluntarily who doesn't fly our flag highest.

But egging and harrasment are out of order all the time.

I still say this is more about Canada's loud (and stupid) mistreatment of the USA than flag flying protocol.

[Phsstpok]

I elected not to respond to the "young lady" claiming to be the daughter of the Canadian military officer this thread is about.

If she is who she say's she is then anything I posted would risk being offensive and, again, if she is being straight, I would NOT want to do that.

If "she" is not who "she" says "she" is, then it's moot.

This was a "cut bait" kind of moment for me.

[freedumb2003]

She's been Zotted, so the AM has ruled (all hail the AM!)

I think my response was as appropriate as possible. I think the AM's response was better (all hail the AM!).

Those were serious accusations and I think it right they not be part of FR.

[Phsstpok]

I still say this is more about Canada's loud (and stupid) mistreatment of the USA than flag flying protocol.

For me it is the protocol. Since this person is supposed to be a formal representative of his country he must honor the required protocols or be sent home. It's not optional in diplomatic situations, which this is. It's like not reacting to the Iranians invading our embassey and taking our diplomats hostage. You can't let that kind of thing go or all of diplomacy falls apart. Kind of like the situation in the Middle East has fallen apart since Jimmy "the teeth" Carter did nothing back then and gave us the Jihadi Middle East we have now.

In diplomacy the protocol IS the substance.

[SandRat]

And he wasn't flying the Canadian Flag above ours just flying the Canadian Flag on the home he bought in town for his family while he's here for duty.

[Beckwith]

I am glad he is flying the flag. He is a proud Canadian. This just makes the U.S. look bad. Sigh.

SIGH?

There's very clear protocol for the flying of national flags. As a man claiming to be a military officer, he is aware of this. So, when a Canadian military officer does this it is a breach of protocol and an affront to the United States and he knows it.

He's really demonstrating that his property is Canadian and it's not.

It is completely permissable to fly the Canadian flag. However, it must be flown beneath the flag of the United States when on US soil.

In Canada, the Maple Leaf would be flown above the United States flag. That's how it works. If I lived in Toronto and flew only the American flag, it would be an affront to Canada.

Your SIGH indicates a very emotional nature and your statement about making the United States look bad just shows your complete ignorance of protocol and a natural instinct to find fault with America.

Conclusion ~ whimpering liberal.

[freedumb2003]

I think some on this thread are having a problem with "beneath." It need not be Beneath, but it must be Lower than.

In the absence of more research, I will accept the premise that flying a flag "beneath" another (as in on the same line) states the latter lost a war to the former.

But I am sure the host country's flag should always be the highest one flown.

[RadioAstronomer]

Pretty clueless I see.

[usmcobra]

“This is the U.S.A. and they need to fly the American flag on top of the Canadian flag. And if they can’t do this then maybe the need to go back to Canada.”

Bugeaud said it would be wrong to fly the American flag over the Canadian banner or vice versus, for that traditionally indicates the flag of a country flying beneath another country’s flag was defeated in war by the one on top of it.

He's wrong, that only applies to ships at sea.

He needs to put up another pole if he really wants to show respect.