Posted on 01/22/2006 8:12:41 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
Genesis 3:20 "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."
Oh, and here's another scripture you might find interesting.
1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
So tell me, do you think these verses say something other than what they plainly say? And if you do, on what scriptural basis do you make that claim? (I mean, other than your opinion that God made man two different times.)
Who does the Bible says gives 'life'? Some people do know know that Christ is the subject from the beginning. There are a couple of more scriptures in Genesis 2 that specifically reference Christ as well.
Again your ICorinthians 15:45 is referencing Biblically the specific 'the Adam', which is a total different Hebrew word than the 'man' described in Genesis 1. Now while you were focusing in on the 'first man Adam' what is the subject of this scripture?????
I guess you are blind to the others that were posted.
Likewise, your saying that there is no apparent contradiction in Genesis 1 and 2 does not make it true. You're making a circular argument; it must be literal, so there's no contradiction, so there's no reason to see it allegorically, so it must be literal. There are no facts here.
Yes, but Jesus and his teachings have nothing to do with whether or not the Hebrew Bible is one hundred percent accurate. In fact, Jesus spent his ministry rocking the boat and criticizing the Pharisees who purported to follow the teachings of the Hebrew Bible. His whole deal was that the most important commandments were to love God and one's neighbor as oneself, which usurped some of the teachings in the Bible about dietary laws, not working on the Sabbath, etc.
Elsie - I don't know what you want here. I quote the 10 Commandments, you say, why 10 and not 5, and then you write some tome with the example of Jesus not insisting on stoning a woman as an example of a (small c)commandment not being followed. I'm not clear what that has to do with what I wrote.
I am happy to debate back and forth with you, but when you write a 1,725 word reply, it makes it very difficult to tease out what your point or question is. (And, I may get it wrong.) Perhaps if you were to keep it more simple and less wordy we could actually come to an understanding of each other's thoughts. Isn't that the point, after all?
I know this because Abraham and his band were illiterate ( during the time that Abraham lived writing systems were so complicated that only highly trained scribes could do it). Therefore, any stories about Abraham started as oral tradition, and there's a high likelihood that any such stories were distorted over time due to the "telephone effect."
You do not understand the quality of reproduction of orally transmitted histories.
They are NOT something that gets told once, like the parlor game you mention, but over and over and over again.
When the old 'storyteller' died, his/her function was turned over to one who had listened/studied for years as an apprentice.
I point out the contradiction. You say there is no contradiction. So, as I said earlier, we disagree.
Elsie - you asked me what I thought were the basic rules. I told you. 10 Commandments, and Jesus' injunction to love God above all else, and love our neighbors as ourselves. I can't understand what you think is controversial here, or what laws, which are different from the 10 Commandments, have to do with what I said.
I don't SAY there is no contradiction. The text itself does.
1. "The tree has green leaves."
2. "The tree has brown bark."
To you, those two sentences are contradictory. OK, fine, believe that. But that makes you a moron.
If you were pulled over for speeding, in downtown Dallas, and you complained to the policeman/woman that "The sign says 40" and they said, "Well, in Jerusalem it is 20, so you get to pay the fine.", what would you think of THAT?! The LAWS were given to the JEWS, the CHOSEN people, NOT Gentiles.
You do remember that the name of this thread is WHICH CREATION STORY?
If the only way you can make your argument is by name calling you must not have a very good argument. Perhaps you wandered into an adult conversation by mistake.
Your reaction does make me wonder why this question generates so much fear. But, please, don't enlighten me.
| Elsie - you asked me what I thought were the basic rules. I told you. 10 Commandments, and Jesus' injunction to love God above all else, and love our neighbors as ourselves. I can't understand what you think is controversial here, or what laws, which are different from the 10 Commandments, have to do with what I said. |
Acts 151. Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved."
2. This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
3. The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the brothers very glad.
4. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5. Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."
6. The apostles and elders met to consider this question.
7. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.
8. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.
9. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
10. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
11. No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
12. The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.
13. When they finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me.
14. Simon has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself.
15. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16. "`After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,
17. that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'
18. that have been known for ages.
19. "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
20. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
21. For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."
22. Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers.
23. With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings.
24. We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
25. So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul--
26. men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27. Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing.
28. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
29. You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
30. The men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter.
31. The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message.
32. Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the brothers.
33. After spending some time there, they were sent off by the brothers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them.
35. But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.
36. Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us go back and visit the brothers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing."
37. Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them,
38. but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work.
39. They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus,
40. but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord.
41. He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
You're making me work hard here. Not necessarily a bad thing.
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening. Acts 28
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law...12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Romans 8
So, yes, the Law, does appear to be in effect, to this day, to all children of God.
Do you have an argument that says otherwise? I'd like to hear it if so.
I want to SHOW what the Book actually says, but getting thru the layers of what folks THINK it says is rough!
I'm with you on this.
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