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CEV Makeover: NASA Overhauls Plans for New Spaceship
space.com ^ | 01/20/06 | Brian Berger

Posted on 01/20/2006 4:48:00 PM PST by KevinDavis

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To: RightWhale; RadioAstronomer

The J-2 is a good engine, but look for NASA critics to hype the two J-2 failures (due not to the J-2 engines but to the spacecraft's empty cavities being unfilled with inert gas) on Apollo 6. Many critics are shallow enough to say that a failure is a failure.

Apollo 6 is only forgotten because it flew (and made 3 orbits) on the day that MLK was assasinated.

For trivia: one of Apollo 6's two cameras (air dropped into an ocean) was never recovered.

21 posted on 01/21/2006 12:33:15 AM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: SunkenCiv
Never heard the one about the SR-71. Supposedly, the metalurgy recipe for the Blackbird's J58 engine was lost,
as well as the one for battleship armor (and the capability to roll the thickness as a matter of progress and economics).

SecDef Cheney did require the F14 tooling destroyed. Now that was a stroke of genius. Clinton couldn't let that stuff be
sold to foreign adversaries for campaign/library contributions....

22 posted on 01/21/2006 5:14:20 AM PST by Calvin Locke
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To: Lancer_N3502A
The S-1 booster highly refined kerosene and oxygen giving it roughly 2/3 the ISP of the STS's LH/O2. BUT...imagine rebuilding the S-1 booster using LH and O2? Would probably throw 500 tons into space...8-).
The hydrogen tank(s) would be too bulky, and the sheer quantity needed would make the main booster too difficult to fuel up before launch. This is also of interest...
SSTO delta-V and dense fuels
by Henry Spencer
"A steeper mass line means that at any time after liftoff, the H2O2/kerosene SSTO has lower mass than the LOX/LH2 one, and since they have the same thrust... the H2O2/kerosene SSTO is accelerating faster. If they have the same total delta-V requirement, that last assumption must be wrong: the H2O2/kerosene burn time is shorter.

"But... the biggest penalty on top of the theoretical delta-V is gravity losses, and gravity losses are a function of burn time! The H2O2/kerosene SSTO is accelerating faster, so it has lower gravity losses, and needs less total delta-V. Moreover, that makes its burn time still shorter, and its mass line still steeper, so the difference in acceleration is even larger than it first seems...

"The H2O2/kerosene SSTO is operating in a very steep part of the mass-ratio curve. A 6% saving in delta-V is *not* trivial. For engines with a vacuum Isp of 320, the required mass ratio drops from 20 to 16. Given the aforementioned sophisticated scaling models, at this mass ratio, the H2O2/kerosene SSTO's payload at the same GLOM is now equal to that of the LOX/LH2 design."

23 posted on 01/21/2006 6:18:00 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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One hydrogen peroxide molecule (H2O2), consisting of 2 hydrogen atoms (H2) and 2 oxygen atoms (O2). When peroxide fizzes, a catalyst splits hydrogen peroxide into two water molecules and an oxygen atom. The reaction fizzes pure oxygen bubbles.

24 posted on 01/21/2006 6:22:08 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: KevinDavis
Here's the ticket:


25 posted on 01/21/2006 6:23:12 AM PST by ovrtaxt (I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
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General Kinetics Hydrogen Peroxide Rocket Engines

26 posted on 01/21/2006 6:23:53 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: SunkenCiv
I wonder if that particular bit of lore grew out of the story about how Lyndon Johnson had the dies and tooling destroyed for the SR-71?

I don't buy that for a second.

27 posted on 01/21/2006 6:24:52 AM PST by ovrtaxt (I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
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To: KevinDavis

Check out what Rutan and friends are up to now:

http://www.virgingalactic.com/en/


28 posted on 01/21/2006 6:29:47 AM PST by ovrtaxt (I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
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Hydrogen Peroxide Detected in Mars' Atmosphere
University of Hawaii
Monday, March 1, 2004
What impact does this result have for the search for life on Mars? Dr Clancy says "Hydrogen peroxide is actually used as an antiseptic here on Earth, and so it would tend to retard any biological activity on the surface on Mars. For this reason, as well as the ultraviolet radiation and lack of water, bacteria-like organisms are not expected to be viable on the surface. Most arguments for finding life on Mars now center on subsurface regions."
Static Test of Hydrogen Peroxide Kerosene Motor
by Robert Compton
"Our present plan for the coming year is to develop an 8'' diameter 500 lb/sec throttleable regeneratively cooled motor. The performance of the H2O2/kerosene motors is not trivial producing the highest density impulse of any usable oxidizer/fuel combination. We hope this report will encourage further development among amateur rocket designers."

29 posted on 01/21/2006 6:38:33 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: ovrtaxt

Don't buy what?


30 posted on 01/21/2006 6:41:26 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: ovrtaxt
Virgin Galactic - the most exciting development in the story of modern space history - is planning to make it possible for almost anyone to visit the final frontier at an affordable price.
That's a joke.
31 posted on 01/21/2006 6:42:30 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: SunkenCiv

That Johnson had the tech suppressed for the SR 71.

The B1, B2 and F117 is proof of that, not to mention the F22 and the F31.

And that's just the stuff we know about! Skunk works moved on from the SR71 quite nicely.


32 posted on 01/21/2006 6:43:54 AM PST by ovrtaxt (I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
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To: ovrtaxt

Sorry, F35- not F31.


33 posted on 01/21/2006 6:45:09 AM PST by ovrtaxt (I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
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To: SunkenCiv

They're taking it pretty seriously for a joke.


34 posted on 01/21/2006 6:45:59 AM PST by ovrtaxt (I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
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To: Calvin Locke

There was a proposal for a Mach-3 craft to be developed from the SR-71 design, I think for a bomber, but I'm not sure; LBJ really, really didn't want that to happen, probably because he figured that the design would be stolen by spies and traitors and lead to the USSR's building a kajillion of them while the US was squandering lives and treasure on Johnson's war.


35 posted on 01/21/2006 6:55:37 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: ovrtaxt
Virgin Galactic - the most exciting development in the story of modern space history - is planning to make it possible for almost anyone to visit the final frontier at an affordable price.
The "affordable price" is $200,000 -- and that is not for "almost anyone". That is a joke. The customer list will eventually include some showbiz types who will fly after a few industrialist millionaires have sought their thrills and returned alive. 99 per cent plus do not have that kind of money to spend on a glorified amusement park ride. Rutan is a genius (and DARPA dollars helped him develop his genius), but he hasn't shown that he can build an orbiter, or even scale up the design to hold a handful of passengers.
36 posted on 01/21/2006 7:02:08 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: ovrtaxt

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1561938/posts?page=35#35


37 posted on 01/21/2006 7:08:50 AM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Well, there was the B58, and the XB70 too. The XB70, in particular, was a promising candidate. The Soviets could have stolen those ideas just as easily, but they didn't have the money to build and sustain it either.

I don't know- that story sounds like urban legend to me.


38 posted on 01/21/2006 8:24:30 AM PST by ovrtaxt (I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
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To: ovrtaxt

"The United States of America has just made history by launching the first spacecraft to explore Pluto and the Kuiper Belt beyond," says Dr. Alan Stern, New Horizons principal investigator, from Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colo. "No other nation has this capability. This is the kind of exploration that forefathers, like Lewis and Clark 200 years ago this year, made a trademark of our nation."
spaceflightnow.com




We might be retarded, but we're still leading in space exploration.


39 posted on 01/21/2006 10:02:49 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: RightWhale

That's almost a good tagline!


40 posted on 01/21/2006 1:44:00 PM PST by ovrtaxt (I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
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