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Why we [should] care about Darwin wars
Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | 1/19/'06 | David Klinghoffer

Posted on 01/19/2006 2:12:48 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator

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To: csense

> Too bad for you, and that someone else, we have the Constitution to stop both of you at your words.

Honestly: what *are* you talking about? I said: "The sort of peopel who honestly believe that atheism equates to 'nothing matters" are *exactly* the sort of people who society needs to have some sort of control over." If you can keep a psychopath under control by instilling in him the fear of eternal damnation... well, I guess it's effective, given the number of Freepers who have suggested that the only thing keeping *them* in line is that fear of God.

Society *needs* for such people to be kept in check. But it would be a mistake to assume that without those controls, everyone - or even a substantial fraction - would turn into rapists and murderers.

Or are you suggesting the the Constitution somehow prohibits telling psychos that God's watching 'em? I must say, I've not come across that interpretation before.


61 posted on 01/19/2006 9:58:25 PM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

Someone needs to re-make that commercial. But with a difference. 3/4 of the way through, the "What's in your wallet?" barbarians need to storm the field.

I don't know what they'd be selling, but you can bet I'd watch...


62 posted on 01/19/2006 10:01:44 PM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: From many - one.

> They just plain don't get it that normal folk don't want to run around raping, stealing, killing etc.

Well said. Pity I didn't read that far ahead before I posted my latest blather.

The great majority of everybody is relatively non-violent under normal circumstances, and thus they don't *need* fear of divine or secular retribution. But some people *are* so inclinded, and we've several levels of such fear built into society. Even if you evade the cops and the vengeful family, God'll still getcha.


63 posted on 01/19/2006 10:05:45 PM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: orionblamblam
I like it already. Speaking of which, I've sort of wondered if there's a way to get my Civilization tribes to invade my wife's Sims town. Hordes of rampaging samurai laying waste to a host of feckless babblers - I don't know if she'd appreciate the humor, though...
64 posted on 01/19/2006 10:12:29 PM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: samtheman

Quite.

It's the old the universe aint what you thought, American ain't so great; in fact it sucks, there is no God, now please burn some flags and send some funds to Nancy Pelosi schtik.


65 posted on 01/19/2006 10:20:21 PM PST by x5452
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To: orionblamblam
This sort of theist is the kind of person who makes me glad that someobdy once came up with the idea of damnation. The sort of peopel who honestly believe that atheism equates to 'nothing matters" are *exactly* the sort of people who society needs to have some sort of control over.

Which does make me wonder: Maybe we should just clam up about this? :-)

66 posted on 01/19/2006 11:50:47 PM PST by jennyp (WWJBD?)
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To: ovrtaxt
While I'm generally a fan of Hayek, but I don't buy that spontaneous order crap for a second. My business didn't happen by accident. Neither did the rest of this economy.

I'm sure your business didn't happen by accident - although I'm also sure your current business plan looks a lot different than it did when you started. But I'm very certain that nobody actually designed or even controls, let alone predicts very well, the structure & direction of the economy as a whole.

It's the Communists who believed you could rationally plan out - intelligently design - an economy. But in a highly interactive environment filled with goal-seeking actors, we only have any significant control over our own businesses & our own careers. The order & trajectory of an industry or of the economy as a whole is something we can only try to keep up with, not intentionally design.

67 posted on 01/20/2006 12:00:42 AM PST by jennyp (WWJBD?)
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To: x5452

I really have no idea what you're talking about.


68 posted on 01/20/2006 1:41:24 AM PST by samtheman
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To: jennyp

Right. That's because Communists think they are God. In fact, it's the elevation of the state as God.

During the Roman Empire, there was a competition for worship between Caesar and Jesus. They didn't mind christians worshipping Jesus, they had a problem with their refusal to worship Caesar.

Same with Pharaoh- for that matter, it goes all the way back to Babel.

The US Constitution is exactly the opposite. It keeps the government in it's proper role of civil servitude to the individual, so that it doesn't interfere with the individual's service to God. We have, unfortunately, allowed our government to become more godlike in recent decades.

But back to the economic model- I don't desire to control the entire economy, or plan it. I do, however, think that I have a right and responsibility to care for my portion of it. If I don't, 'spontaneous order' isn't going to happen.


69 posted on 01/20/2006 3:21:23 AM PST by ovrtaxt (I looked for common sense with a telescope. All I could see was the moon of Uranus.)
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To: Heartlander
Do you still ‘believe’ human consciousness ultimately comes from mindlessness?

Do you mean, do I believe the human brain evolved? Of course.

70 posted on 01/20/2006 5:19:03 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: longshadow; PatrickHenry
David Klinghoffer is a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute and the author of "Why the Jews Rejected Jesus: The Turning Point in Western History"" (Doubleday).

Nice discovery.

71 posted on 01/20/2006 7:15:30 AM PST by Ken H
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To: jennyp
"Only a sociopath, who doesn't have the capability to feel empathy for others, could possibly become a nihilist because of accepting atheism. But a sociopath wouldn't be affected by any love of God, either! So there is no way your claim about atheism implying nihilism could be correct."

I am not talking about feelings. I am talking about the human ability to override feelings when their intellect tells them that their feelings are a ruse, a product of evolution. Then it's back to "Natural Born Killers". It IS the logical conclusion and final end to "real" atheism.

Atheists cannot conquer this one principle: Life only lasts as long as “now”. And “now” is a very brief period indeed.
72 posted on 01/20/2006 7:30:48 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: orionblamblam

"I've known quite a number of happy atheists who would not dream of violent behavior. "
That is because they are not very bright atheists. They don't understand the ultimate meaning and end to such a belief. You see, it IS either psychopathic, or just dull thinking.


73 posted on 01/20/2006 7:32:21 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: RobRoy

> That is because they are not very bright atheists.

Yawn. Your insults are as lame as they are ignorant. Fortunately, I know enough *good* theists to know that you are not representative.


74 posted on 01/20/2006 7:33:51 AM PST by orionblamblam (A furore Normannorum libra nos, Domine)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
On the other hand, one can hardly deny the sad coarsening of our culture.

Science should restrict itself to only uplifting findings? What a bunch of crappola!

75 posted on 01/20/2006 7:36:13 AM PST by Rudder
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To: Right Wing Professor

"You use the word nonplussed. I do not think it means what you think it means."

That's inconceivable!

Actually, I do stretch the meaning of the word when I use it. Within the context of my sentence I could have used a better word. Fact is, a few years ago it fit better than it does now.


76 posted on 01/20/2006 7:37:09 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: Zionist Conspirator
So there is nothing absolute about our ideas of right and wrong. Wrote Darwin, "We may, therefore, reject the belief, lately insisted on by some writers, that the abhorrence of incest is due to our possessing a special God-implanted conscience." If ethics has no such secure foundation, there can be nothing sacred about doing the right thing.

************

Correct.

77 posted on 01/20/2006 7:42:01 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: longshadow
... the author of this "guest editorial" is one of the usual dorks at the UnDiscovery Institute ...

The "fellows" at that distinguished [**snicker**] institute are on the verge of making their very first discovery -- that changing the name of creationism to ID and then lying about it doesn't fool very many people.

78 posted on 01/20/2006 7:46:43 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

What about the Jesuits?!?


79 posted on 01/20/2006 7:49:59 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: orionblamblam

Meh...


80 posted on 01/20/2006 7:51:51 AM PST by RobRoy
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