Remembering Two Great Americans

EverVigilant.net ^ | 01/19/2006 | Lee R. Shelton IV

[PzLdr]

Sherman never murdered surrendered prisoners, ala N.B Forrest. He never robbed a bank, like Morgan. He never extorted money under threat of arson like Jubal Early and J.E.B Stuart. He punished troops who raped and murdered, unlike ANY Confederate commander who dealt with William C. Quantrill or "Bloody Bill" Anderson. So, I'll stick with Sherman. You can keep the "heroes" of the South.

[PzLdr]

And the Commonwealth of Virginia was a nest of traitors to the United States of America. And they LOST. So get over it. If you can admire Lee and the crew, and divorce them from their treason, I can admire Thomas' vastly underappreciated generalship - and his patriotism.

[PzLdr]

That's why his remembrances of the formal surrender of the Army of Northern Virginia mesh so well with that other purveyor of truth, John B. Gordon.

[PzLdr]

His grandfather died fighting in the Valley as a Colonel, C.S.A. As a child he knew J.S. Moseby

[muir_redwoods]

"Don't kid yourself.Chamberlain is not quite what Schiara portrays him to be. He has a large problem with the truth, for instance."

Good advice for both of us, the part about not kidding ourselves. JLC didn't own any slaves at least, nor did he fight to keep them for others.

And please don't try to tell me that the war had nothing to do with slavery. It was almost all about slavery.

[sheltonmac]

A great General, but a despicable man.

What were the specific circumstances surrounding those alleged incidents? Besides, are things like that so uncommon during times of war? Were not U.S. troops denied leave from Iraq so that they could help their families after Hurricane Katrina?

Among other things, Jackson was well-known for his ministry to the black population. Before the war, for example, he ran a Sunday school for black children--slave and free--and taught them how to read. Considering that this was the Antebellum South, was this the behavior of a "despicable man"?

[injin]

my great grandfather was a member of the 15th Mississippi Infantry and it is quite possible he was still with it and the Army of Tennessee CSA after Bentonville and up until Bennitt's Farm . Therefore , had Sherman not held his forces in check as they cried for revenge on the vastly outnumbered CSA forces , after the assassination of Lincoln, the Yanks would have and could have wiped them out to a man, my dear GG as well. The Union forces wanted to....were it not for Sherman staying their hand . For that I thank him , and my family thanks him for that mercy . As for the rest , he sure didn't need to do all that burnin and pillaging ....

[Syncro]

Can you imagine that, we traded Washington and Lincoln's birthday holidays for MLK. And then relegated the Father of Our Country and Abraham Lincoln to President's Day.

Absurd

[Casloy]

Were not U.S. troops denied leave from Iraq so that they could help their families after Hurricane Katrina?

It was not that he didn't allow them to go home that was despicable, it was that he turned around and brought his wife to the winter camp. In other words, "you can't go see your dying children or wife, but I can bring my wife to be with me when I get lonely." That kind of double standard is the mark of a truly arrogant leader. In fact, there was a book written recently that conjectured that Jackson was actually shot deliberately by his own men, led by the officer to whom he refused to give a furlough to see his dying children and wife. I don't think the book was at all convincing and I have no doubt the shooting was an accident, but it does tell you how well known this incident with his wife was. His troops loved him because even though he drove them hard, he won battles. He was without a doubt a magnificent tactician, but as the truly humble image he tried to project he was miserable failure.

[PzLdr]

Sherman was the first general to realize that in the industrial age, the society that supported an Army was as important to defeat as the army itself. And easier. One of the amazing facts about the Civil War to me is that, except for the Army of Tennessee at Nashville, no major Army from either side, despite heavy casualties, was ever damaged to the point that it became combat ineffective, or was annihilated.

By operating the March to the Sea, and the march north through the Carolinas as he did, Sherman forced the Confederate forces in front of him to disperse over a wide front [optional objectives, being unable to prevent the "bummers". This in turn adversely impacted the morale of the population base. Hell,Gov. Brown of Georgia flirted with the idea of seceding from the Confederacy and making a separate peace.

By the time Sherman headed into North Carolina, Many, if not most of Lee's Georgians and Carolinians were deserting to go home to their families. So while the material damage was heavy, Sherman probably saved a great many lives, Confederate as well as Union, with his operational methods. He certainly shortened the war, because: [a] the desertions from Lee impaired his ability to man the Petersburg defenses and still cover Union flanking operations, and [b] convinced a lot of folks down South that the war was lost, since the Yanks could move at will through the Southern heartland. {I always thought one of the key mistakes the Confederacy made was putting the capitol in Richmond, and focusing too much attention on Virginia].

[Badray]

Say something to indicate that you are older than 12 and have an inkling about differing political systems.

[bagman]

You're right. A swath of destruction was not cut across Georgia from Atlanta to Savannah. Columbia did not burn. What was I thinking?

[bagman]

Chamberlain claims to have spent the night, laying on the field in front of the Stone Wall, at Fredericksburg. Never happened. His report on Gettysburg is exactly accurate.

[bagman]

If the war was entirely about slavery, then why did Virginia refuse to go out until after Lincoln called for volunteers after Fort Sumter was captured? The threat to slavery hasn't changed. To credit slavery as the sole cause is to greatly simplify the matter.

As a philosophical aside, I note that in the 1930s, pertinent and respectable scholarship blamed tariff policy for the war. What was a major issue in the 30's? Smoot-Hawley, perhaps. I suggest that the "main" cause of the war reflects society's obsession at the time. Right now, in the USofA, our obsession is with race, of course.

[PzLdr]

Said his tactics, in the long run, saved lives, Southern as well as Northern. He did war by manuever instead of head on battle. Sherman waged the first blitzkrieg campaign in history. As for Columbia, those jacka*ses wanted secession, and if need be, war. They got it. Don't feel sorry for them at all. Georgia got less destruction than South Carolina. North Carolina got much less.

Since he was there to win the war, tough cookies.

[Mrs. Darla Ruth Schwerin]

Above all, Lee and Jackson were men of God. Lee loved to pray. He would be sure to let people know that he was praying for them, and he felt encouraged when he was remembered in their prayers. Once, upon hearing that others had been praying for him, he remarked, "I sincerely thank you for that, and I can only say that I am a poor sinner, trusting in Christ alone, and that I need all the prayers you can offer for me."

Jackson was the epitome of a life devoted to prayer. No matter was too insignificant that it did not warrant communion with the Father: "I have so fixed the habit in my mind that I never raise a glass of water to my lips without asking God's blessing, never seal a letter without putting a word of prayer under the seal, never take a letter from the post without a brief sending of my thoughts heavenward. I never change my classes in the lecture room without a minute's petition for the cadets who go out and for those who come in."

***HAPPY BIRTHDAY, GENERAL ROBERT E. LEE***
&
***HAPPY BIRTHDAY, THOMAS(STONEWALL)JACKSON***

[Zeroisanumber]

In the book, His Excellency: George Washington Joseph J. Ellis argues that had General Washington been willing to take on the issue of slavery in Virginia, the Civil War might very well have been averted. I think that the idea is tantalizing, no other man in America had the stature to take on the issue of slavery in the days immediately following the Revolutionary War, but it asks a bit too much from a man born in those times.

Still, if Washington had turnd Virginia away from slavery, it would be hard to imagine a Confederacy without the Old Dominion.

[Mrs. Darla Ruth Schwerin]

"In the book, His Excellency: George Washington Joseph J. Ellis argues that had General Washington been willing to take on the issue of slavery in Virginia, the Civil War might very well have been averted. I think that the idea is tantalizing, no other man in America had the stature to take on the issue of slavery in the days immediately following the Revolutionary War, but it asks a bit too much from a man born in those times."

I remember coming across the name, Ellis, so I may have gotten some information from this book. Anyway, I never got the impression, "slavery" was the real problem.
The real issue seemed to be just a general restlessness among the natives. And, if one looks closely, you can see that this, "general restlessness" still exists today. So, go figure. And yes, the Civil War never should have occurred, but it did happen, which would imply that Lincoln was just a bit to feisty for his own good. Just a restless native...you see... The South knew the minute he was elected, "trouble was a comin' their way".

[antisocial]

BUMP for later read

[contemplator]

I was just looking through old threads and this one caught my eye. To place Grant rock bottom in the list of presidents until Clinton is quite a disservice to the man.

Grant's presidency marked the beginning of what was later to be termed 'The Gilded Age', an era of peace, prosperity and growth. It's true that Grant's presidency was rocked by scandals, none of which involved him personally. The worst that can be said of him in this regard is that his judgement in picking subordinates was flawed. Although in fairness, Grant was caught between a rock and a hard place when it came to that.

Grant's view of how Native Americans should be treated was perhaps the most enlightened of any president of the age. It should be noted that he had an extreme dislike for Custer and the methods emplyed by the troops in the West in this regard. It appears that although he did not agree with what was going on in the west, politics were such that he could only effectively fight for one major cause, and he appeared to choose Reconstruction as the "sword he would fall on".

The majority of Grant's energies were focused throughout both of his terms on Reconstruction. In this, Grant understood that his view was not universally accepted and he needed to surround himself with men who could be trusted not to derail his efforts. Such men were not easy to find. Unfortunately, the men he picked which he thought he could trust had other vices which made them unworthy. Grant had no way of knowing this in advance however. Even his hand picked successor promptly derailed Reconstruction efforts almost from the minute he took office.

Grant's reputation in the 20th century took quite a beating, mostly at the hands of those who pushed the 'Lost Cause' agenda and who ardently opposed civil rights efforts. As historians now reassess Grant's presidency from a post-civil rights perspective, most agree that his record when it came to fighting for civil rights is unmatched by any president including LBJ. Grant's actions against the KKK proved to be extrememly effective and almost resulted in the complete eradication of that organization. His view of how the race relations in America should be proved to be visionary and remarkably far-sighted.

Most historians now rank Grant in the middle of the pack overall when it comes to his place among the other presidents and his star is continuing to rise as the bitter animosity of the early-mid 20th century eases into the past.