Is Evolution Arkansas's "Hidden" Curriculum

RNCSE 25 (1-2)/National Center for Science Education ^ | Jan.-April. | by Jason Wiles

[dread78645]

3. Creation by humans (or whatever) with a time machine, going back to start the whole thing going, possibly by dumping their garbage on a pristine earth. Crazy? Consider ... we have evidence of humans, and we have evidence of humans dumping garbage. All we need is a time machine.

Too fantastic.

4. Dogs. We have evidence of dogs, and everyone knows what dogs dump, and we have evidence of dogs in time machines.

;->

[PatrickHenry]

Well, maybe the DI will fund some research.

I doubt it. Except for substituting "time traveler's garbage pile" for "warm little pond," the rest is pure Darwinian evolution.

[Coyoteman]

Read the article which started this thread, then ponder the fact that science students in many other countries are learning *real* science, not just the watered-down neutered version which won't offend the touchiest parents in Arkansas and elsewhere...

Is it too late to let Arkansas succeed from the Union? Maybe we could say the Civil War never happened, that they just imagined it or something.

[Ichneumon]

The only improbability [he casually said] is the time machine. If that gets invented, the rest is pretty much inevitable.

Maybe, maybe not. Larry Niven has pointed out that the invention of time travel may be "unstable". Once a time machine is invented, sooner or later some time-traveler is going to manage to accidentally screw up the past in a way that messes up the conditions which brought about the invention of the time machine, and thus the discovery of time travel will "remove" itself.

In the new, altered timeline, eventually someone else will invent the time machine, which eventually will lead to its own "uninvention", rinse, repeat.

There's a really good variation on this concept in the film, "The Butterfly Effect", along with a "double whammy" twist ending (although most people I've talked to missed the second mindblower).

[phantomworker]

That is so sad, but true!

[furball4paws]

Well, we were having a reasonable discussion. Genesis says God breathed life into a lump of clay (dirt, etc.) That makes it Abiogenesis by definition.

I'm aware of Crick. I knew Francis personally and he always stated that DP puts off the question of the origin of life to another place and time (and if you get a few drinks in him, he was quite funny about it).

"Do they teach abiogenesis in high school or just evolution?"

There's not much to teach about Abiogenesis. I haven't seen a recent HS Biology textbook, but if it says anything, I'd guess it's just a mention in passing.

Anybody got one on hand?

[wintertime]

but it is gonna take accredited advanced courses in math and the sciences to get you into a real major. (Servant of the 9)

To Servant of the 9,

Geeze! All those homeschoolers who are excelling in their university math and the sciences courses would disagree with you.

My own homeschooled kids never went to high school. They were accepted to college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13, without a single science course of any kind. Forget about accredited. Two graduated with B.S. degrees in math at the age of 18. (Plenty of heavy duty science in that major) One just finished a masters degree in math at the age of 20. The oldest majored in accounting.

The most elite and competitive universities are taking note of homeschoolers like mine ( with their entirely unaccredited pre-college science education) and eagerly recruiting and accepting them.

[Ichneumon]

Do they teach abiogenesis in high school or just evolution?

In my high school, lo these many decades ago, they taught both, although they were clear about abiogenesis being little more than a hypothesis at the time, albeit one with some tantalizing evidence pointing generally in the direction of that scenario.

And no, it wasn't in Arkansas. ;-)

[phantomworker]

Is it too late to let Arkansas succeed from the Union?

Isn't that Rhodes scholar Bill Clinton's home state?

[furball4paws]

And just what kind of success should we allow them?

[Ichneumon]

My own homeschooled kids never went to high school. They were accepted to college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13, without a single science course of any kind.

Er, are you saying that they haven't been taught any science whatsoever? If so, that's disturbing.

[phantomworker]

it is basically impossible to prove a negative

What is a contrapositive?

The contrapositive of a conditional statement is formed by negating both the hypothesis and the conclusion, and then interchanging the resulting negations.

In other words, the contrapositive negates and switches the parts of the sentence. It does BOTH the jobs of the INVERSE and the CONVERSE.

Example:

Conditional: "If 9 is an odd number, then 9 is divisible by 2."

Contrapositive: "If 9 is not divisible by 2, then 9 is not an odd number."

[PatrickHenry]

the invention of time travel may be "unstable".

Sure, I think it would have to be. But all you'd need is one trip into the far past to bootstrap the whole thing. At that point, the time machine has served its purpose and it can be erased. The resulting biosphere isn't tampered with. Inevitably, the time machine will be invented again, and the whole cycle repeats. "Sufficiently stable" is all we need.

[microgood]

Well, we were having a reasonable discussion.

I thought it was a trick question.

[phantomworker]

You know, I think you might be right about being accepted to competitive universities where once they weren't. But saying they never took a science class is misleading. Of course someone had to teach them science. A "class" is not necessary. There can be a class of one.

It's just that in class of > 1, there is more interaction and the opportunity for more stimulating conversation.

[wintertime]

Er, are you saying that they haven't been taught any science whatsoever? If so, that's disturbing. ( Ichneumon)

To Ichneumon

You did not read my post. Two of the three had B.S. degrees in math by the age of 18. That is LOTS of heavy duty, very serious science by the age of 18. One of the two just finished a masters degree in math by the age of 20. The oldest majored in accounting.

Not included in my post: All three finished all levels of college calculus by the age of 15 and all of their college general courses ( science included in that as well).

By the way,,,,my homeschooled kids are NORMAL. It is the government school children who are deliberately held back, delayed, and retarded in their academic and social development.

First of all let's get something straight.

Children can not study real science. They don't have the math background to do so. What they are really learning in elementary and ( for most children) in high school is general information about the natural world. Telling children that they are studying "science" is a really a gross distortion. It is giving them an entirely erroneous impression about what the true work of science entails.

My homeschooled children's education concerning general information about the natural world included checking out every book on these topics in the children's section of our county's main library. Many of these books were read multiple times. Government school children would do well to be as well informed about the world around them.

[furball4paws]

I am aware that the contrapositive of a true statement is always true. But we are not "proving" a logical statement.

The scientific proposition "There is no spontaneous generation" cannot be practically proved. No matter how many times the data are negative there is still huge number of alternatives to test. So, it cannot be realistically nailed down.

[ReignOfError]

But several court decisions have concluded that fairness and free expression are not violated when public school teachers are required to teach the approved curriculum.

One of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read. The author must mean that its OK to violate fairness and free expression in the case of school, not that they are not violated which is stupid.

The author means that teaching from the curriculum, according to the courts, does not violate fairness and free expression. And look! That's what he wrote!

Nazis, UFO abductees, the Nation of Islam, and adherents of every other crackpot theory under the sun have the right to fairness and free expression. That right does not extend to having their views presented in the classroom to provide "balance."

[phantomworker]

I think you are confused about what is a logical statement.

Do you know how to empirically test any supposition?

Test the extremes?

[wintertime]

Nazis, UFO abductees, the Nation of Islam, and adherents of every other crackpot theory under the sun have the right to fairness and free expression. That right does not extend to having their views presented in the classroom to provide "balance." ( ReignofError)

To ReignofError,

The education of young children can NEVER be neutral, politically, culturally, or religiously, in content or in consequences. The government school WILL establish and uphold the worldview of some citizens ( with political, cultural, and religious consequences) and trash those of others.

Establish? Establish? Hm,,,,,don't we have a First Amendment on the federal level and sustained in every state constitution about the ESTABLISHMENT of one religious worldview over another?

So.,....tell me.

Why is the government in the business of owning and running schools that WILL establish the political, cultural, and religious worldview of some while trashing those of others?

Why is government running a price-fixed monopoly that is giving a product away for free?

Why is government creating a business environment that makes private schools scarce?

When private options are scarce or nonexistent it then threatens parent with armed police action and foster care for their kids if they refuse to cooperate with the NON-NEUTRAL political, cultural, and religious agenda of the government.

Why is government threatening citizens with the sheriff's auction of their homes and businesses to fund curriculum and school policies that WILL establish the political, cultural, and religious worldviews of some citizens and trash those of others?

Government has turned our citizens into a nation of renters.The government really owns our homes and businesses. If the citizen can not or will not pay their school taxes the government evicts them.

As for freedom of expression: Children have little or NO freedom of expression in any government school. Not only that but their right ( and indirectly those of their parents) to freely assembly is trashed as well. They can not print or free distribute their beliefs either. If children do not cooperate with government school officials they will be punished. If they are sufficiently resistant they will be arrested by armed police. ( real bullets in those guns on the hip) We have an example a child as young as 5 being handcuffed and hauled off to the local police station.

Government schools are an abomination! It is long past time that we begin the process of privatizing universal K-12 education.