Posted on 01/11/2006 11:59:10 AM PST by Eaglewatcher
Fair Tax Ping!
Flat tax?
NO TAX!
The fact that they use a euphemism to describe it instead of calling it what it is, a SALES TAX, should be a red flag. I don't trust politicians. If a sales tax is passed with a promise that it will replace the income tax, it won't happen. They'll never give up the income tax. We'll find ourselves with both. The flat tax is the way to go. They argue that the flat tax won't really be flat. So why should we believe that the sales tax will completely replace the income tax? How is it we can trust the politicians to do one but not the other?
False. You just magically declare education an investment and not consumption. The Fair Tax does exactly that. It has the same exact effect of exempting everyone providing education (teachers, suppliers of schools, etc.) from paying an income tax. Now who wouldn't want to be exempted from the income tax? Expect every industry to demand to be an "investment" rather than consumption.
Such amazing naivete. I would like the Fair Tax, but Congress will have to be kept on a very tight leash to keep them from giving different rates to different products.
All it takes is one Congressman sneaking something into a "must-pass" bill and suddenly gas guzzlers have a higher sales tax rate and hybrids have a lower tax. After all, it's only "fair" to have a lower sales tax on hybrid cars because they already have an income tax credit under the current plan.
For example, why do we have - or need - federal departments of commerce, of agriculture, transportation, or labor. All of these deal with commerce. Combine them all. Likewise, why do we have an education, a welfare and health departments. Combine these - or eliminate them altogether.
As long as our Government remains fat, we will remain overtaxed.
As a side note... only people pay taxes. Businesses to not pay taxes; they are costs that are passed on to customers - the people.
Fair Tax, Flat Tax, Progressive Tax, all have their inherent advantages and disadvantages.
While I might agree that the "Fair Tax" would be an improvemnet, it doesn't really address the biggest problem. In fact it tends to perpetuate a myth that the only thing wrong with taxes is that they're unfairly collected.
As Walter Williams correctly contends, "As long as Government spending amounts to 5 - 10% of the GNP, just about any method of collecting taxes works fine." The problem is that Government expenditures approach 40% of the GNP. Even Boortz himself admits that the Fair Tax does nothing to limit Government spending, and is designed to be revenue nuetral.
In conclusion, the only real solution is to get a handle on Government spending. That will happen when people "en masse" stop voting for government handouts for themselves.
I'm afraid that means the solution is a long way off.
However, the nrst imposes some serious obstacles to adding an income tax to it.
First, the entire income tax is erased, gone. At the moment nrst HR 25 becomes law, the income tax ceases to exist.
Also, all existing income tax records are destroyed save those of delinquent taxpayers at changeover.
To re-impose an income tax, some politician would have to propose it (death wish), politicians and lobbyists would have to write, negotiate, rewrite, renegotiate an entire income tax code. THen, some politicians would have to vote for and pass it....this all after the individual American has been receiving a paycheck with no federal deductions and no individual tax filing.
This would take a relatively long time - long enough to pass the amendment repealing the 16th and making the taxation of any kind of income unconstitutional. If there is no income tax, why oppose repealing the 16th?
If you're worried about both taxes being imposed, then passing HR 25 will be a priority to you.
The arguement against the fair tax is similar to the arguement against the flat tax, that once you put in the fair tax, the income tax will start to creep back in at first only taxing the rich, then everyone else.
This is true only in non monopoly situations. In situations that are monopolies or near monopolies, the business/owners really do pay the tax.
Consider the idea that the method of tax collection we currently use is permissive to increasing taxes and hence gov't growth.
Withholding, business taxes, employer "contributions" are all ways to prevent the individual from recognizing his tax burden. Withholding doesn't hurt, you never have to "give up the cash". Business taxes are just passed on in higher prices, lower wages, or reduced ROI...all are hidden costs of government paid by an individual. Ditto employer contributions for FICA.
All these "tricks" work to prevent individuals from knowing how much gov't actually costs them.
Consider changing nothing except eliminating withholding and having individuals pay their tax monthly like any other bill. Would that put downward pressure on taxes/gov't spending? Of course it would... just by changing the method of collection....even though that step does not include a spending cut. This simple step would be effective even though it ignores business taxes!
Avoid fixating on spending cuts before tax reform. It hasn't ever worked. I don't think it will... of course the pols don't want reform of this nature. They have to support it or lose their jobs.
Why wouldn't Congress be able to tinker with the national sales tax?
The flat tax still allows a sales tax to be added to it. No flat tax proposal indicates even a desire to prohibit the addition of a sales tax at a later date.
However, the nrst imposes some serious obstacles to adding an income tax to it.
First, the entire income tax is erased, gone. At the moment nrst HR 25 becomes law, the income tax ceases to exist.
Also, all existing income tax records are destroyed save those of delinquent taxpayers at changeover.
To re-impose an income tax, some politician would have to propose it (death wish), politicians and lobbyists would have to write, negotiate, rewrite, renegotiate an entire income tax code. THen, some politicians would have to vote for and pass it....this all after the individual American has been receiving a paycheck with no federal deductions and no individual tax filing.
This would take a relatively long time - long enough to pass the amendment repealing the 16th and making the taxation of any kind of income unconstitutional. If there is no income tax, why oppose repealing the 16th?
If you're worried about both taxes being imposed, then passing HR 25 will be a priority to you.
11 posted on 01/11/2006 3:43:04 PM EST by Principled
And in non-monopoly situations both the producers and the consumers effectively pay; the relative amount depending on the specific demand and supply curves.
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