'KILLER': I HAD COP OUTGUNNED

NY Post ^ | Jan. 11, 2006 | DENISE BUFFA

[Pharmboy]

No problem...there were no NYPD killed last year until these two unfortunate guys in December within a week of each other.

[SJSAMPLE]

There is SOME effect of recoil, but hardly what we see on TV. Especially with single-shot shotguns and rifles, where all of the recoil is directed back to the shooter. Semi's have the benefit of storing some of the recoil energy in the spring and then returning that energy to load the next cartridge.

[absolootezer0]

its all in the way you look at it.
9mm lightest bullet is 95gr
.357 heaviest is 200gr.
9mm slowest bullet (147gr) goes 890fps
.357 fastest bullet (110gr) goes 2040fps
9mm oal is 1.150"
.357 oal is 1.575"

so yeah, if you pick and choose your facts you can make any statement you want.
compare true equivalents:
.357 goes about 400fps faster than 9mm with 125gr bullet.
most common bullets for .357 is a 158gr, 9mm is 125gr. that is .005lbs difference, at roughly the same speed.

[f zero]

It's all about kinetic energy.

[eastforker]

Oh I agree! My 12 auto loader could be fired off your chin.

[TChris]

Experts say the .357 Magnum is significantly more powerful than a 9mm because the bullets are bigger and leave the gun nearly twice as fast.

Bwahahaha.

That's particularly hillarious, since a 9mm is .357 caliber. (or, more like .356)

Study after study has shown that, while the .357 does have a better one-shot-stop record, the 9mm isn't that far behind it. It's all about shot placement.

[absolootezer0]

.357sig is not the auto equivalent to a .357mag. closer comparison for .357mag in an auto is .38super.
.357sig is a necked down .40s&w. there are a few manufactures that have or do make .357mag autos- colt used to make a 1911, magnum research still makes desert eagle in .357mag.

[Wonder Warthog]

"It's all about kinetic energy."

Well, it depends on what "kinetic energy" you're talking about---it's really about "kinetic energy transferred from the bullet into the target", which is why the venerable .45 is rated as a better "manstopper" than the .223, despite the much higher "bullet kinetic energy" of the .223. If all that fast .223 does is punch through soft tissue, it won't do much "shock" damage.

[BCR #226]

Actually, the 9mm bullet is .355 diameter while the .357 is well, .357 diameter. Just a quick detailed correction.

Mike

[BadAndy]

"357 fastest bullet (110gr) goes 2040 fps"

I may be wrong, but I don't believe you can get 2040 fps from a 110 gr 357 in a handgun barrel using standard loads. Where did you get that data?

[thefactor]

it must be a misprint. the officer must have been carrying a 9mm. for officers with his amount of time on the job, that is the only weapon they can carry on or off duty. officers who were hired before 1994 might still be carrying .38's but that is the only exception.

as far as carrying off-duty, we are required to. unless we are: going on vacation, going to a sporting event/concert, going out drinking, going somewhere where it is difficult to secure the weapon (the gym), some federal buildings, or anywhere we don't feel comfotable carrying. as an aside, i do not know any cop who wears his vest home. it is just not done.

[absolootezer0]

check out alliants reloading page. shows 18.5gr of blue dot will do it.
i've been trying to find someone showing load data for 296 or 2400 with 110gr jhp for a while, i think those would go faster still. i've seen load data showing 1800+ and 1900+fps respectively with 125gr jhp.

[Ghengis]

You would be surprised at the number of .45 Kool-Aid drinkers who still talk about "knock down power" and "stopping power".
1. Shot placement 2. Penetration
Anything else belongs to marketing departments.

For those two reasons I now carry 147 grain SJHP subsonic rounds in my 9mm CCW weapon. I read ballistic studies and later spoke with a police officer who had used those rounds in real shootings. He had 100% success with them and the studies I read showed them to be the best 9mm performer for penetration, expansion and wound cavity.

[SJSAMPLE]

I'm a 124gr Speer Gold Dot man, myself ;)

Actually, I use Gold Dots in my 9mm SIG P226, my .40/357SIG P229 and my Glock 22.

IIRC, 12" of penetration is considered "required".
Works for me.

[Dead Corpse]

10mm. EAA Witness full size. 135gr Hornady XTP's pushed by 6.8gr of W231. Works for me... My steel plate load for it is 200gr FMJ with 5.8gr of W231. Puts 'em down with authority.

[Mini-14]

No. the 9mm is a smaller diameter than the .357.

I checked my copy of "Cartridges of the World" and see that you are correct. The 9 mm is .355 (.002 mm smaller than the .357).

I learn something new every day. Thanks for correcting me on that one.

[Mini-14]

Even Dirty Harry admitted that he only used 44 specials in his Model 29. If we don't know what the firearm was loaded with, then we don't know the ballistics.

What the heck? Was firing 'real' 44 specials? Or, were they blank 44 specials?

[jw777]

this guy will be someones punk in prison.

[Deguello]

???

Harry used 44 specials...from movie script.

Eastwood used blanks.

[SJSAMPLE]

In "Magnum Force", he explained to the vigilante/rookie cops that he used downloaded .44mags with wadcutters because they were more controllable. Probably just above .44 Special loads.