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Survival of the Evolution Debate: Why Darwin is still a lightning rod.
The Weekly Standard ^ | 01/16/2006, Volume 011, Issue 17 | by Adam Wolfson

Posted on 01/07/2006 7:44:07 PM PST by MRMEAN

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To: DeweyCA
Many (not all) Libs, primarily the secularists, desperately want evolution to be taught in schools solely for the reason that it will undermine the Christian faith of the sudents.

This isn't fair, b/c by arguing this point you make me sound like a lib and that makes me feel ickly. But I did want to mention that biology is a science based on the solid science of evolution and makes no mention of religion or God (any of the thousands) anywhere in the scientific literature. You are inventing absurdist boogeymen.
81 posted on 01/08/2006 10:48:46 AM PST by whattajoke
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Your complete and utter faith in natural selection is analogous to the complete and utter faith that 19th Century physicists had in Newton's clockwork universe.

Someday biology will have to make the same quantum leap forward into the information age that physics made into the quantum mechanics age in the 1930s.

When it does, ID will be agent that midwifed the leap.

82 posted on 01/08/2006 10:48:59 AM PST by JCEccles
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To: Doctor Stochastic
It doesn't. All evolutionary theory says is that those (species) who do not do what is necessary to survive are less likely to do so. There's no "want" or "desire" or "need"; it's just a big filter. Mutation proposes; selection disposes.

Like sudden-death overtime. It's better to be lucky than good. :-)

83 posted on 01/08/2006 10:50:01 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: PatrickHenry
The Dover decision is almost certainly the death of ID's attempt to sneak into science classes.

There are perhaps a few scientific proponents of ID that have successfully disguised their religious motivations in the issue. But I doubt there will be any school board that will ever promote ID that won't also have a religious paper trail. That will kill the ID-in-school project flat.

84 posted on 01/08/2006 10:53:07 AM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: JCEccles

So you disagree with the article's statement that ID is not science?


85 posted on 01/08/2006 11:00:44 AM PST by Phocion ("Protection" really means exploiting the consumer. - Milton Friedman)
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To: JCEccles
Someday biology will have to make the same quantum leap forward into the information age that physics made into the quantum mechanics age in the 1930s. When it does, ID will be agent that midwifed the leap

Sounds like you're holding out hope that the "information gain" argument of IDers will someday hold water. Sorry to disappoint, but Caltech long ago demonstrated that evolution processes can gain information.

But the information age has dramatically helped evolution while being a disappointment for ID. The genome sequencing data that helped find a few thousand Endogenous Retrovirus DNA segments in common between ape and human genomes are the smoking gun proving common ancestry of both species.

It has been badly reported in the media (and posted here on FR) just how important gene sequencing has been for evolution science. Most articles claim that comparisons between chimp and human DNA are such and such percentage identical. IDers can simply claim that's a design feature. But the reality is that we've been able to discover *how* genomes evolve, and side-by-side comparisons of genomes confirm those hypothesis based on evolution theory.

Microbiology, enabled by information technology, has added yet another layer of confirmation onto evolution.

Look it up and weep.

86 posted on 01/08/2006 11:03:33 AM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: narby
There are perhaps a few scientific proponents of ID that have successfully disguised their religious motivations in the issue. But I doubt there will be any school board that will ever promote ID that won't also have a religious paper trail. That will kill the ID-in-school project flat.

Even if the pushers of ID manage to groom a "stealth" school board, it won't matter. The Dover decision totally demolishes the scientific credibility of ID. They brought out their big guns (Behe, etc.) and they made fools of themselves. Their big text, that Pandas book, was shown to be a warmed-over creationism tract. ID is dead, and the republican party is saved from this ghastly embarrassment. [New tagline.]

87 posted on 01/08/2006 11:03:59 AM PST by PatrickHenry (ID is to biology what "Brokeback Mountain" is to western movies.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Nice Tagline. LOL.


88 posted on 01/08/2006 11:10:56 AM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
That's true, I did. But I don't think my nutritional requirements would fail to be met if future lifeforms expired before I consumed them. Then again, maybe I really do need symbiotic e. coli to remain healthy. But they aren't "food" and I don't get significant nutrition from them, AFAIK.
89 posted on 01/08/2006 11:20:48 AM PST by coloradan (Failing to protect the liberties of your enemies establishes precedents that will reach to yourself.)
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To: grey_whiskers
Full Disclosure: I'd love to read a P.J. O'Rourke piece on the subject.

" Death is even more important than pain. Death was invented so we could have evolution. The process of Darwinian selection does not work on things that don't die. If it weren't for death, we would all still be amoebas and would have to eat by surrounding things with their butts."

-- P.J. O'Rourke

90 posted on 01/08/2006 11:31:38 AM PST by dread78645 (Sorry Mr. Franklin, We couldn't keep it.)
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To: GSlob
Some scientists with first-rate credentials, namely Michael J. Behe..." Second-rate professor from a second-rate institution [which still had enough sense to distance itself from him] is barely a first rate credential.

"God doesn't play dice with the Universe."-Albert Einstien

Real second-rate guy there. Oh, I know, you'll claim that's not what he meant or he was taken out of context, etc., etc., etc.... But seeing as how you didn't even get the main point of the article and just used the Behe thing as a strawman...

Well, just like Dawkins, it must be nice to sit in an ivory tower and claim infallibility. Unlike some of us who still believe that evolution has not disproved God and still are waiting for the agressive scientific pontificators to give us ALL the answers...

91 posted on 01/08/2006 11:38:21 AM PST by 101st-Eagle
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To: JCEccles

Natural selection isn't a matter of faith. It's just an observation. If you die before you have children, your genes will not be passed on. That's all there is to it.


92 posted on 01/08/2006 11:42:16 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: coloradan

I just meant that you ingest bacteria and viri every time you breath. Surface contamination (not on filet mignon, but on hamburger) is another method of transport.

Yoghurt good; live oysters bad. (Though I have consumed both.)


93 posted on 01/08/2006 11:44:34 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: dread78645
Death was invented so we could have evolution.

He might have solve the whole crevo debate right there.

Talk about your Felix peccatum Adae

Cheers!

94 posted on 01/08/2006 11:44:53 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: 101st-Eagle
"God doesn't play dice with the Universe."-Albert Einstien

No, it's just wrong. Einstein wasn't a very good economist either.

95 posted on 01/08/2006 11:46:04 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: js1138
What do you consider a slight dissent? Do you agree with ID advocates, Behe, Denton and Dembski that common descent is a fact that can be taken for granted?

As some on other threads deny ever saying fact instead of theory, I will once again point out the arrogance inherent in the religious nature of Darwinist absolutism.

96 posted on 01/08/2006 11:51:32 AM PST by 101st-Eagle
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Mutation proposes; selection disposes.

Nice line!

97 posted on 01/08/2006 11:56:11 AM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: 101st-Eagle
As some on other threads deny ever saying fact instead of theory, I will once again point out the arrogance inherent in the religious nature of Darwinist absolutism.

Read the definitions below with reference to your comment.



Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses." Addendum: "Theories do not grow up to be laws. Theories explain laws." (Courtesy of VadeRetro.)

Fact: when an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact

Religion: (theistic): "1 the belief in a superhuman controlling power, esp. in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship. 2 the expression of this in worship. 3 a particular system of faith and worship." Non-Theistic: "The word religion has many definitions, all of which can embrace sacred lore and wisdom and knowledge of God or gods, souls and spirits. Religion deals with the spirit in relation to itself, the universe and other life. Essentially, religion is belief in spiritual beings. As it relates to the world, religion is a system of beliefs and practices by means of which a group of people struggles with the ultimate problems of human life."


98 posted on 01/08/2006 11:59:44 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Physicist
CODSWALLOP. The dissenters from evolution are overwhelmingly creationists whose main objection is that evolution contradicts the account of Genesis.

And please, dear professor, where is your data source, beyond your little experiment, for such an irrefutable statement.

You see, only Darwinsists can ever inject subjectivity in to what is supposed to be inferred as fact.

What you did is not conclusive, no matter how much you want it to be. I, along with others still believe in evolution as a theory as well as a notion of a prime mover.

99 posted on 01/08/2006 12:02:37 PM PST by 101st-Eagle
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To: 101st-Eagle
Check post 291 for some more Einstein quotes.
100 posted on 01/08/2006 12:05:10 PM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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