Posted on 01/04/2006 11:45:20 PM PST by Atlantic Bridge
I was able to live in Schwaebisch Hall for 3 years. It was beautiful, and the Germans were wonderful...but it was in the 70's. I always wanted to go back someday; but I guess it's changed a great deal. Dolan Barracks (Schwaebisch Hall) closed some years ago.
the whole idea of many NATO nations as allies post-Cold War has always bothered me....
I would suggest that if we really want to improve our relations with Germany we should re-construct the Soviet Union, as the only real reason our "allies" on the continent were playing friendly (usually) was the presence of the Soviets.
Without the Soviet menace, the Germans are now free once again to spit in our face without fear of the consequences. They are not our "allies" now, and to say they ever were would be using the term loosely. German "friendship" with America from 1945-1991 was a marriage of convience...nothing more.
Think about this...We stationed hundreds of thousands of men in West Germany, which allowed Bonn to develop their industry instead of worrying about their self defense. Then We subsidized West Berlin and the Bonn government throughout the 1950's and early 1960's. We pumped up the German economy with liberal trade policies that helped the Germans become the leading exporting nation on the continent. The Berlin airlift, the Marshall Plan, the economic boost of military bases, etc. And in the end the Germans believe that it is the US that is the source of all the worlds problems...
But if we were as mean and nasty as the Germans really believe, it's a wonder we didn't impose the Mongenthau plan that we had discussed at the Quebec conference.
A lot. You wouldn't believe it.
Here is a list of all US facilities everywhere. Check out the Germany section for both the Army and the Air Force.
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2003/basestructure2003.pdf (680 kb)
That's the structure before the current round of BRAC closures (which haven't fully started yet).
To put it bluntly, who gives a rats a** if Europe doesn't like us? I sure as hell don't.
No of course not. The problem is, concerning human rights, that image of Russia is probably much better than the contempoary image of the US in mainstream Europe. I do not speak about the realities I speak about the "images". The European left doesn't care about Putins little genocide in Chechenya but they care about Gitmo. This is the schizophrenia we are dealing with.
Germany's unemployment rate is about 11%, their economy is chronically sluggish, their ability to project power is a chimera, and their moral authority is best seen in their being the suppliers of WMD materials to Saddam Hussein for oil concessions.
From where do they think they get the right to be heard?
This is possible. But if you take a look at the emotional reaction of your compatriots it is indeed not so that Europe is irrelevant to them. The more they say it the more they give proof to the opposite. Europe and America have too many ties to be irrelevant to each other. Most Americans are of European heritage i.e.. Furthermore the EU is still one of the biggest economical powers on this planet - even with its socialist leadership.
Why whould that improve anything ?
Alas, we should be friends and allies, but it's not to be, Americans' opinions of Germany has fallen low as well.
I hope the Muslims treat the German people well.
Guck Fermany!
if you had a look at the posting below yours you might get a hint on what has to improve.
Your post #29.....Unfortunately I think you are 100% right.
Euros have a preoccupation with critizing the US....they need to look inward instead. In any case anything they say or do is of no importance for the advancement of mankind. But they sure may bring about the down fall, again.
The germans are developing MEADS together with the USA. There's obviously sound relationships beyond public image hunting.
It's just to easy to be rewarded at your pub table with anti-eu or anti-us paroles. No matter on which side you are.
By pulling out our troops, the Euroweenies could actually spend some money on on their own defense instead of having us pay for it while they spit in our face in return. It is time for Old Europe to grow up...pull its own weight. If they want to criticize the U.S., they should do so as independent nations...not bite the hand that feeds them. Our military presence has enabled Old Europe to create socialist states that would implode if these countries actually had to maintain militaries to provide for their own defense. Time to cut the strings and let Old Europe either sink or swim.
The only thing that I'd add to troop withdrawal is the exhumation of U.S. servicemen buried in Europe and relocation to the States. It is a shame that they gave their lives for the likes of Frenchmen...the least we can do is give them proper burials in the U.S.
Germany is no millitary power anymore. BTW - The German people have absolutely no interest to be one. Besides of that you should realize that Germany is as the third largest economy still one of the most powerful economical blocks in this world. I.e. we export more goods than the US. Proof?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051229/ap_on_bi_ge/germany_economy
Strikingly numbers about unemployment do not show everthing.
Maybe we have no right to be heared, but it would be a intelligent move to hear what we say.
:-)
I'm not saying that we did all that we did because we were swell guys, we certainly wanted to keep the Soviets in check.
I just think it is a bit of a stretch for some to imagine that suddenly, in the late 1990's, the Germans changed from our best friends to our worst enemies. A lot of folks here in the US are truly shocked by the reaction of Germany and France in particular.They have spent the last fifty years under the illusion that just because some folks are technically our allies, they are also our friends.
De Gaulle's France, for example, was never a "friend" of the US, but sometimes he could be considered an "ally".
If and when it suited him.
The same could be said for Germany, with one vital difference. De Gaulle didn't have a million soviet troops near his borders, so he was free to speak more freely.
The relationships, as a State Department official might say, were always "complex"..hehe.
Germans don't have much more time to grow up and view the current state of the world as it really is.
We asked very little of the Germans regarding Iraq.
We were not simply turned down. Every effort was made to undermine us regardless of the cost to us or the plight of millions of Iraqis.
After defending Europe for nearly 50 years at great expense in blood and treasure what was done to us in return will not be forgotten anytime soon.
If you think so.
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