Did the Cubans assassinate Kennedy?

The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 1/4/06 | Kate Connolly

[Doctor Stochastic]

It wasn't a hitman hired by Joe Dimaggio and Arthur Miller?

[plain talk]

The point I have tried to make ... and will try to make again ... is that to harp on Oswald's mediocre performance as a marksman in the Marines is only relevant if you are comparing him to other Marines. I'll say again, a marginally qualified Marine "marksman" IMHO would be almost inherently a better shot than the average Joe, John or Jack Schmoe walking the streets of Dallas, Texas, on November 22, 1963.

So what? Better than someone who never shot a gun? That comparison is meaningless here. The question is whether it is more or less probable that he did it alone based on all the evidence - Oswald's rifle skills, difficulty of the shot, motive analysis, Zapruder film analysis, etc. Seems it's possible he could have done it alone but that is a long ways from being probable he did it alone especially when viewing the Zapruder film of the 3rd shot.

[DHerion]

I think too many people just need to believe in a conspiracy for whatever reason. At the end of the day there is more than enough evidence to put Oswald at the end of rope. For the rest all people have are theories. And suggesting the nephew of Giancana confessing that the mobster admitted to killing JFK is worthless. The guy was selling a book. He had no evidence to support his claim. And most of these statements from mobsters are equally worthless. They are killers, extortionists, thieves and liars but we should believe everything they say. Come on. So what if Roselli was killed prior to testifying. The guy was a mobster. They're being whacked all the time. And mobster's bragging they had JFK whacked is equally valueless. What better way to enhance your prestige with other gangsters than to make wild claims. The guy is not going to go around bragging his roses won a contest with Home Beautiful.

I watch Gunny shoot the dastardly watermelons on Mail Call and have NEVER seen the "jet effect" only melons being blown backwards by the shots.

I don't know how many times I have to wrote this but I will again. John Latimer, a forensic pathologist, duplicated the jet effect by firing into human skulls. Clearly the jet effect is in the Zupruder film so it happened. Unless you support the ludicrous Robert Groden theory that the Zapruder film was doctored by experts at ILM?

Clearly my remark was wrt the "testing" by third parties of similar rifles. Oswald's rifle is in the National Archives and not loaned out for testing. It could not even be tested by the FBI until work had been done on it by the US Army Ordinance Lab.

Conspiracy theorists don't argue Oswald's rifle was incapable of killing JFK. They state categorically that no MC rifle could do it; when Latimer and a Australian production company did exactly that.

Something being "possible" is a far cry from something being PROBABLE. There are just too many holes for the WC conclusion to be probable.

I agree. But unlike the WC others have duplicated the ballistics involved - John Latimer and the Australian production company. Have you? Have any of the so called conspiracy experts? No. They simply state it could not be done.

you have to explain why he would allegedly try to kill Walker, an Ultra-Rightist, Nixon, a moderate conservative and JFK a moderate Leftist.

I don't have to explain his motivation. I can't read a dead man's mind. We have evidence he tried to shoot Walker (his own wife) and JFK (physical evidence, witnesses, etc.). (By the way JFK was no moderate left winger - he wanted to cut taxes, over throw Castro, almost got into a nuclear war with Russia and was bugging Martin Luther King).

[justshutupandtakeit]

Anyone willing to overlook all the unanswered questions, distorted evidence, witness tampering, changed testimony, and who grasps at straws could believe Oswald did it alone. Those who are not willing to do ALL of the above have doubts.

Roselli's killing COULD have been a coincidence and Giancana's killing COULD have been a coincidence. But they were VERY convenient coincidences and certainly assisted keeping mob involvement covered. And it is simply FALSE that these killings "happen all the time" they are quite rare and even rarer happen to the leaders. Chicago has had ONE killing of the Boss, Sam, in a hundred years. Never anyone with his power.

Marcello's comments were not all bragging and the last of them came as he was on his deathbed rambling. He was not trying to impress anyone or even tell anyone. It was just that there was an FBI agent who heard them.

You can write about Latimer's hijincks all you want but I do not believe a word of his allegations. They are contrary to the Laws of Motion. Argue with Newton. You also must explain the fact that the FBI initially had the frames showing the head shot REVERSED to make it appear the head went forward when its backward movement showed clearly that the death shot came from the front.

I have no concern about any other MC just the piece of crap Oswald had. It was garbage and no tests can make it otherwise.

Oswald's wife has recanted almost all of her original statements made while held by the FBI and in a state of sheer terror. Oswald's statement that he was a patsy showed that the motivation given (he wanted to make a name for himself) is nothing but garbage of the lowest quality.

[DHerion]

You can write about Latimer's hijincks all you want but I do not believe a word of his allegations. They are contrary to the Laws of Motion. Argue with Newton. You also must explain the fact that the FBI initially had the frames showing the head shot REVERSED to make it appear the head went forward when its backward movement showed clearly that the death shot came from the front.

They are not hijinks. Unlike you I can not discuss physics with Sir Isaac Newton. And I am not going to defend the FBI. But just for your education here is a link to a video from one of John Latimer's ballistic test (real video required). But maybe it's a fake. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/skull.rm

I have no concern about any other MC just the piece of crap Oswald had. It was garbage and no tests can make it otherwise.

I see, so people can do actual test with an MC rifle but they are meaningless because its not Oswald's rifle. Sorry, not buying it. Making the statement its a crappy rifle is not evidence.But let's use a little common sense. Why would these brilliant conspiracy people use what you call a crappy rifle for the assassination? Wouldn't that create doubt in the minds of people like you and others. Why wouldn't they frame Oswald with a great rifle?

Oswald's wife has recanted almost all of her original statements made while held by the FBI and in a state of sheer terror.

Marina Oswald has never recanted her testimony. She still states she took the photos of Oswald with the rifle, found his diary with his plan to shoot Walker, etc. All she has stated is she believes there was a conspiracy. That statement is not based on her own experiences but only the ravings of conspiracy kooks who have harassed her for thirty years.

Oswald's statement that he was a patsy showed that the motivation given (he wanted to make a name for himself) is nothing but garbage of the lowest quality.

You actually believe Oswald now? He was just an innocent dupe? The man was an unbalanced nut, a liar and a killer.

By the way how many people were involved in your grand conspiracy. 10, 20, 50, a 100? Just curious. How many riflemen? How many Dallas police? How many FBI? CIA? LBJ? Gangsters? The autopsy team? The WC? Etc.

[OldArmy94]

It seems to me that the essential problem when discussing the Kennedy assassination is that both sides (Lone Nut Theorists and Conspiracy Buffs) are way too dogmatic and rigid in their thinking. Neither side is open-minded enough to analyze the evidence without preconceived notions. For instance, Gerald Posner, who is held up as a rational analyst, has his own axe to grind. He is anti-conspiracy at all levels and will do anything to attack those who propose such theories. However, a quick look at the conspiracy folks demonstrates a similar lack of rational thought (eg, belief in a complex, interwoven, deep-rooted effort amongst several government agencies and elected leaders). I'll admit that I have always had a slight bias for the conspiracy side of things but that I am perfectly willing to accept that Oswald perpetrated the entire crime on his own. There is ample evidence to support the view that he did it, alone. However, there are also disturbing, lingering questions that hint at more than one gunman.

[razorback-bert]

pinging me

[JWinNC]

The key thing to me has always been the shot through the neck. It's the single most telling piece of the puzzle. Despite anything else that happened if one looks at the neck wound and the position of JFK's body in the Zapruder film at the time of the neck shot. There is no way possible for that shot to have come from the repository window.

The angles simply do not match.

jw

[scott says]

I enjoyed your posts.
Unfortunately people will believe what they want and actually have very little interest in researching the facts for themselves.
Here is an excellent website that will support your comments and disprove a lot of the ignorant comments that I have read on this thread--

The Kennedy Assassination

[scott says]

[SunkenCiv]

and an oldie:

JFK's fatal head wound: The truth for those who want to know (very graphic)
jmasland.com & others | 11/22/03
Posted on 11/22/2003 5:10:59 PM PST by Wolfstar
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1027256/posts

[SunkenCiv]

With the car being a convertible (and a good old fashioned big as a battleship model at that), the rear seat, where the Kennedys sat, was a bit narrower. Also, the car was not very far down the street from Oswald's window when the first shot was fired. IOW, I agree with you.

[SunkenCiv]

a bit of a spoof:

not a good angle:

I'd never seen this one before:

[DHerion]

The key thing to me has always been the shot through the neck. It's the single most telling piece of the puzzle. Despite anything else that happened if one looks at the neck wound and the position of JFK's body in the Zapruder film at the time of the neck shot. There is no way possible for that shot to have come from the repository window. The angles simply do not match.

You really can not calculate trajectory angles based on a 2 dimensional piece of film. You would have to create a 3 dimensional model of the road and downward slope, car, building, and position of the people in the car to determine if the bullet came from the 6th floor. A computer graphic designer actually did that using a 3d program. And it was his determination that JFK was shot from the 6th floor. Here is a link to the man's site. Very interesting work. I do not believe anyone else has tried this to this detail.

http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/intro.htm

[texasbluebell]

"Will people please let this die..It was 42 freaking years ago!"

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Um...ok, sure. In the meantime...

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Assassination of Abraham Lincoln

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:zqFI5G0isNYJ:memory.loc.gov/ammem/alhtml/alrintr.html+lincoln+assassination&hl=en

[SunkenCiv]

Was Oswald in the Doorway of the Depository at the time of the JFK Assassination?
By Magen Knuth
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/oswald_doorway.htm

[short answer is "no"]

[SunkenCiv]

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/lbjlib/phone_calls/Nov_1963/audio/LBJ-Hoover_11-29-63.htm

"...the matter of Alvarado, the Nicaraguan who a few days before walked into the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City and told of having seen Oswald take money in the Cuban Embassy to kill Kennedy."

[SunkenCiv]

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/lopezrpt/contents.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0331b.htm
http://history-matters.com/essays/frameup/MoreMexicoMysteries/MoreMexicoMysteries.htm

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pages/WH_Vol16_0331b.jpg
http://history-matters.com/essays/frameup/MoreMexicoMysteries/images/MyteryMan1.jpg
http://history-matters.com/essays/frameup/MoreMexicoMysteries/images/MyteryMan2.jpg
http://history-matters.com/essays/jfkgen/LastingQuestions/images/MysteryMan.jpg
http://www.mediamonitors.net/images/oswaldimpersonator.jpg
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/oswald/art/mexicop.jpg
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/LHO25.jpg

[SunkenCiv]

Now this is just sick:

[SunkenCiv]

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Appointment in Dallas: The Final Solution to the Assassination of JFK by Hugh C. McDonald other edition

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