New Device Will Sense Through Concrete Walls

American Forces Press Service ^ | Jan 3, 2005 | Donna Miles

[Conservative Goddess]

"They shouldn't worry: the technology described can only see through concrete; it hasn't a prayer of penetrating a Liberal's skull."

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

[porkchops 4 mahound]

All of humanity's rights are "natural" and descend from the Lord our GOD.

I don't need a tutorial in the source of "natural rights" or the argument about how the enumeration some rights in the Bill of Rights gives the ignorant or evil a basis to claim only those rights enumerated by the government are valid.

I'm talking about living in the real frikkin world.

Are you really incapable of seeing the absolute need to survive as a culture, to have actual, real world, "rights"?

Can you be so obtuse as to cling to a theory, while our nation is murdered?

Do you think the DEAD have RIGHTS?

This is the hard part of being an adult, (to live in the real world).

I totally agree with you, IN THEORY.

I just happen to live in the real world.

Is it OK with you that our enemies, who know NO LAWS, use our "rights" to KILL us, and our posterity?

Are you ignorant of the absolute truth of Jefferson Davis's epitaph of the Confederacy? That is, that the Confederacy "died of a THEORY"?

Do you think that we, (America), are at this time, at this place, are exempt from the realities of force?

History proves you wrong.

This is WAR for survival, and in case you hadn't heard it before, the United States Constitution is NOT a suicide pact.

[Conservative Goddess]

LOL.

Fear is a powerful master, used throughout the ages to usurp liberty and to manipulate the masses.

Please don't fall for it again. I feel like I'm watching a re-run of Charlie Brown....and Lucy is holding the football...We've been here before. The Founders knew that in times of national emergency, there would be a tendency to cede liberty in exchange for security and they warned against it. For whatever reason, you believe the evil we now face is unlike any other evil we've ever faced. Nonsense. Our enemies have always sought to destroy us using the force and method of the age.

FROM: http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/chuckwagon.html

Patrick Henry Today: "Give Me Security, Anything But Death!"

By Chuck Baldwin

Food For Thought From The Chuck Wagon, January 4, 2006

Patrick Henry (1736-1799) was one of America's greatest Founding Fathers. In fact, he was the most famous orator of the American Revolution. He was admitted to the bar in 1760, served as a member of the Virginia House of Burgesses, the Virginia Patriotic Convention, the First Continental Congress, the Virginia Legislature, and the Virginia Ratification Convention, and was Virginia's first Governor.
Patrick Henry's fiery speech delivered on March 23, 1775 in St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia was the catalyst for the heroic stand taken by American patriots at Lexington and Concord, where America's fight for independence began. Perhaps no man was more influential in sounding the clarion call for freedom than Patrick Henry.

In his famous speech, Henry shouted, "What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

Compare the spirit of Patrick Henry with the spirit of modern day conservatives. What do we hear from them? What is their clarion call?

The battle-cry (or should I say, surrender-cry) of the modern day conservative is, "Give me security, anything but death!" Yes, it seems that to most conservatives today, life and peace are willingly purchased with the price of chains and slavery! Just look at how eager and willing they are to accept abridgements and usurpations of our constitutional liberties.

All over America, conservatives, including Christian conservatives, defend President Bush's decisions to abuse the power of his office and ignore the rule of law by spying on Americans without warrants and ignoring the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution and procedures of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). They defend him as he unabashedly calls for greater power and promises to continue to ignore basic liberties. Such conduct is both unconscionable and unforgivable!

That America is "at war" is no excuse for President Bush (or any president) to violate his oath of office and trample the rights and freedoms of the American people! And anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't understand the first thing about America!

Since when did conservatives forget their history and heritage? When did they decide that security was more valuable than liberty? When did they lose their love for freedom and loyalty to our Constitution? When? When George W. Bush became president. That's when.

Ever since Bush was elected, conservatives have been capitulating and compromising basic American values to the point that they have become slaves! Yes, slaves. Slaves to the Republican Party! Slaves to George W. Bush! Slaves to security! Slaves to their own ambitions and comforts!

America has always stood for liberty! All nations promise security, but America has only promised freedom. A bird in a cage is secure, but it is not free. George W. Bush wants to put America in a cage. And, unfortunately, most conservatives seem fine with that.

Shame on us! Shame on us conservatives! We sully the memories and stain the honor of our forebears!

Listen again to the words of America's founders. Hear again their cries for freedom. Hear George Washington when he said, "The thing that separates the American Christian from every other person on earth is the fact that he would rather die on his feet than live on his knees."

Hear Samuel Adams when he declared, "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

Listen to Benjamin Franklin when he said, "They that would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Hear Patrick Henry one more time, "Give me liberty, or give me death!"

There is more to life than living! There is more to being an American than being secure! Patrick Henry understood that.


© Chuck Baldwin

[porkchops 4 mahound]

What makes you think you can lecture ME about Liberty?

What makes you think that I am ignorant, or disrespectful, of the "Rights" we Americans have, or the REAL price Americans have paid for those rights?? (You don't know sh!t about my family's sacrifices of BLOOD for those rights).

Can you really be so arrogant, and ignorant, that you are incapable of understanding that when THEORY meets the REAL world, theory must accommodate REALITY?

You obviously have never built anything from scratch, according to plans.

Do you understand that in engineering, in reality, that "always" means 68% of the time? (ie. if I toss a ball in the air and catch it 68 times out of 100, one level of precision would consider that ALWAYS)

You ignore that our "Rights" have been abridged during ALL of our previous WARs.(The theory being a DEAD AMERICA defends no rights). (The success of this theory is a historical FACT).

I ask you simple questions, do you have the "b@lls" to answer truthfully?

Do the DEAD have RIGHTS? That is, is it better to insist on your rights, NO MATTER WHAT. when reality will squash you if you do?, ie. you have the right of way, so you pull out in front of a runaway truck, after all you have the right of way. That makes sense to you? What do you think would happen?

Is the Constitution of these United States of America a suicide pact to you?

Shall we insist on absolute individual rights, while our enemies who know NO LAW, use these rights to murder our Nation, our people, and our way of life?

I value American's rights at least as much as you do.
I am not blinded by fear, I am aware of the real danger our enemies pose, I understand we are in a WAR of cultures, a WAR for survival.

It's obvious that you and your ilk do not.

You position is the position of a naive child, not of a mature free person, who wishes their children to remain FREE.

I await your explication on this, after the next time these monsters strike here at home. I await your explanation to the DEAD, and Maimed Americans, and their families, how it was more important to insist on "our rights", than to prevent the ACTIONS which resulted in the DEATHS and mayhem caused by our enemies.

When you hold up the Bill of Rights between you and the enemies of America, will the BOR stop a bullet?, how about a NUKE?

Jefferson Davis was talking about you, and your ilk.

"Noble" fools are still FOOLS.

Do the DEAD have RIGHTS?

Since you seem incapable of answering this simple question, I'll answer it for you, NO, the DEAD have NO RIGHTS, they are quite simply DEAD.

Baka.

[Conservative Goddess]

You are hysterical. Take a deep breath. Come back when you are rational. Dismissed.

[commonerX]

"""Well, there's been a (at least)60 year movement to bypass probable cause and warrants in general. They invented "no expectation of privacy" and other madness that's certainly not footnoted after the Bill of Rights in invisible ink. You cannot sidestep the Constitution with regular law. It takes an Amendment or a formal suspension of civil liberties, like martial law. If they want to have searches without warrants, then they need to have to jump through the hoops to make and Amendment. It's difficult to do and was intended to be difficult. I don't want a new Amendment. But if they want warrantless searches, that's what it's going to take. People here don't want dems to have powers like that. I agree, and I don't want Republicans to have those powers, either."""

Well, now they will not need a warrant. All they'll have to do is go down the street and check everyones house for illegal goods or activities.

[commonerX]

aa huh, you have something to hide then.
The police will be shortly.

[porkchops 4 mahound]

Once more, slowly, DO the DEAD have RIGHTS?

No the DEAD are just DEAD.

When you hold the Bill of Rights up will it stop a bullet? a NUKE? (The answer is NO).

The Constitution of the United States of America is NOT a suicide pact, (except to children and fools).

I know you find this offensive, I feel your pain.

But, the essence of the question remains, DO the DEAD have RIGHTS?

The answer is still NO, the DEAD are just DEAD.

Dismiss that.

[Conservative Goddess]

Here, I'll type real slow.

Whether or not the dead have rights, and I would argue that they do, is not dispositive of the Constitutional issue.

Your incessant, petulant repetition of a question which is not dispositive of the issue demonstrates your inability to reason above an elementary, emotional level. Dismissed.

[porkchops 4 mahound]

I understand your need to resort to ad hominem attacks, your specious argument that "individual rights" should ALWAYS be our absolute primary concern, even in the face of life or death REALITY, lacks any sort of substance. You have nothing else in the face of historical FACT.

Once more, in the real world, (REALITY), insisting on individual "rights" before any other consideration, can be absurd to suicidal.

Now if this was just you as an individual, that would be fine,(if it was your own freely informed decision), however we are talking about the entire nation.

If you have the "right of way" and you pull out in front of a runaway truck, how does that profit you? You did have the "right of way" after all, Would that make an acceptable, (to you), epitaph? Of course not.

You seem incapable of understanding, (or even admitting), the simple principle, that if the United States of America is destroyed, as a nation, and a culture, that Americans, (not mention the rest of the world's peoples), will have no effective advocate of their "natural rights". Do you think the UN, or the Europeans, will protect, or defend, traditional American individual rights?

Of course not, the premise is absurd at best, and dangerous to the nation at worst.

Your ignorance of America's history is most interesting. Name one WAR, America has fought in it's lifetime so far, where the "individual rights" of our citizens have not taken a back seat to the life and death concerns of the Realpolitik of WAR?

Calling me names does not change the facts.

The Constitution of these United States is NOT a suicide pact, except to children, and fools, and our enemies.

I find it interesting that in your world, the DEAD have any RIGHTS. This shows how intellectually dishonest your position is.

I know you find this offensive, I feel your pain.

Now demonstrate, once more, the substance, and maturity, of your argument.

[Conservative Goddess]

Do you know what ad hominem is? Nevermind......

Let's assume, for sake of argument that you are correct, that dead men have no rights. It does not logically follow from that proclamation that the living should therefore surrender theirs. Your argument is specious and circular.

Are you sure dead men have no rights? Positive? Absolutely certain? Step outside of your paradigm long enough to play devil's advocate with yourself. Here's the first Socratic question for you....it should help in your contemplation:

Which, if any, of the first 10 amendments are surrendered by reason of death?


Ponder the question and get back to me.

[porkchops 4 mahound]

Thanks for making my point, again.

"Noble" fools are still just FOOLS.

[Conservative Goddess]

Piffle.

From your posts, it's immediately obvious that you are terrified of death.

It is likewise obvious that you are unprepared to engage in the intellectual heavy-lifting that is necessary to examine this question at any depth; preferring instead to post conclusory, self-congratulatory tripe.

Petulant repetition and CAPITAL LETTERS do not change the character of your illogical argument.

"May posterity forget that ye were [among] our countrymen."

Dismissed.