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MK Eitam: Netanyahu Will Allow Jerusalem to be Divided
www.arutzsheva.net ^ | 17:34 Jan 02, '06 / 2 Tevet 5766 | Ezra HaLevi

Posted on 01/02/2006 7:38:10 PM PST by Esther Ruth

MK Eitam: Netanyahu Will Allow Jerusalem to be Divided 17:34 Jan 02, '06 / 2 Tevet 5766 By Ezra HaLevi

Former NRP chairman and current National Union MK Effie Eitam sharply attacked Likud chairman Binyamin Netanyahu, saying the former prime minister will not stand up against Jerusalem’s division.

National Union MKs toured the Maaleh Adumim region Monday. The MKs inspected areas surrounding Jerusalem where Arab construction is being carried out illegally using funds from the Palestinian Authority and Saudi Arabia.

“Jerusalem is being divided, with the consent of Sharon and Peres and the illegal construction will leave Jerusalem surrounded by a fence, with a wall down the middle and surrounded by fire,” MK Effie Eitam said, “and Netanyahu won’t stop it if it is up to him.”

MK Effie Eitam told Arutz-7 that Jerusalem is already being divided in the field. “I am very concerned that if there is not, alongside Netanyahu, a bloc of right-wing Jewish parties, the connection between the nation and its land will become only a slogan for him. And we have already seen where how far the Likud can deteriorate.”

Notably, Netanyahu’s campaign slogan in 1996 was ‘Peres will divide Jerusalem.’ Following a report in Newsweek quoting one of Sharon’s campaign advisors saying Jerusalem would have to be partitioned, Netanyahu has repeatedly implied that Sharon would implement such a move following elections.

Sharon has denied such intentions.

Eitam said the Likud does not understand that its political strength is tied with its adherence to clear right-wing principles. He said that such ambiguity has caused the party’s support to decline to a mere fifteen mandates projected for the Likud in the coming elections.

Published: 15:15 January 02, 2006 Last Update: 17:34 January 02, 2006


TOPICS: Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: divided; eitam; israel; jerusalem; netanyahu

1 posted on 01/02/2006 7:38:13 PM PST by Esther Ruth
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To: SJackson; Alouette

ping


2 posted on 01/02/2006 7:38:50 PM PST by Esther Ruth (I have loved thee with an EVERLASTING LOVE, Jeremiah 31:3 Genesis 12:1-3 ***ZECH 12:3)
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To: Esther Ruth
I think it really depends what you mean by "dividing Jerusalem". I don't think either Prime Minister Sharon or former Prime Minister Netanyahu (whom I expect will be in a coalition government together when the dust settles) would give up any part of the Old City or any holy sites within Jerusalem. Even Rachel's Tomb on the fringes of Bethlehem is on the Israeli side of the fence. Now, if we're taking about outlying Arab villages that Jerusalem grew to incorporate like Abu Dis then MK Eitam is correct. Abu Dis is already outside the fence. Of course places like Abu Dis and Safwan weren't part of Jerusalem a few decades ago, were they?

Talking about dividing Jerusalem is a political hot button that MK Eitam and other right wing party leaders will try and use to their advantage. That includes former Prime Minister Netanyahu who, if you remember, pulled out of Hebron as Prime Minister.

Should the fence be routed to include all of Jerusalem on the Israeli side, including Arab neighborhoods on the outskirts? I'd say yes, all of Jerusalem should be in Israel, but the High Court disagreed with me and the fence was moved. Some nonsense about inconveniencing the Palestinians was cited. I personally find rockets and bombs inconvenient. Don't you? Somehow Jewish inconvenience, injury, and death wasn't so important.

Visit: http://www.onejerusalem.org

3 posted on 01/02/2006 8:55:27 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: Esther Ruth

Peres, and Sharon, and Netanyahu (and all secular Israeli leaders) are fanatical in their desire to split the historical city of Jerusalem, and give away at least some of the Biblical Land of Israel. Their motivations have nothing to do with security or politics. They seek to prove that human beings, and not the Master of the Universe, are in charge of the Holy Land. Supporters of any of these secularists are sure to be disappointed.


4 posted on 01/02/2006 9:15:06 PM PST by hlmencken3 (Originalist on the the 'general welfare' clause? No? NOT an originalist!)
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To: hlmencken3
Funny, I believe in G-d and I am more than a little observant. Still, people who believe they know precisely what G-d wants and when scare me. All of the promised land will be given to the Jewish people when moshiach comes. Until then...

You analysis is nonsense, except perhaps to religious zealots, fundamentalists, and extremists.

5 posted on 01/02/2006 9:25:57 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: anotherview

Didn't Barak already offer to divide Jerusalem in the 2000 negotiations with Arafat? The problem is that once an Israeli is stupid enough to make a suicidal offer it becomes like the Brezhnev Doctrine there is no moving back. In another thread it is noted that Barghouti is being allowed extra freedom in prison so he can be involved in the politics of the PA. There is no level to which Israel will not stoop in its current campaign of appeasement. I hate to think about what catastrophe will have to befall Israel before this lesson is learned.


6 posted on 01/02/2006 9:28:19 PM PST by Honestfreedom
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To: Honestfreedom
Didn't Barak already offer to divide Jerusalem in the 2000 negotiations with Arafat?

Yes, he did. The immediate consequence was that his coalition fell apart and it led to his fall from power rather quickly. That lesson is not lost on Prime Minister Sharon or former Prime Minister Netanyahu. They will not repeat Barak's mistake. Neither wants to commit political suicide. Barak can't even be elected to the Labour list at this point. Even his own party has pretty much disowned him.

7 posted on 01/02/2006 9:33:04 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: anotherview

Barak fell apart because his generous offer was met by an unprecedented campaign of terror which he showed no ability to stop. I have no idea how Israelis would react to a genuine Arab willingness to make peace on those terms. To be honest I am starting to get the impression many Israelis would be willing to be confined to one square mile of Tel Aviv if it resulted in an apparent peace. Yes I know that is exaggeration and hyperbole.


8 posted on 01/02/2006 9:47:02 PM PST by Honestfreedom
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To: Esther Ruth

Joel 3:2
2 I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
There I will enter into judgment against them
concerning my inheritance, my people Israel,
for they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land.
(from New International Version)

Zech 12:2-3
2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.
(from New International Version)

Rev 11:1-2
11:1 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.
(from New International Version)

Dan 9:25-27

25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
(from New International Version)

Dan 11:31-32

31 "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.
(from New International Version)

Matt 24:15-25

15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel-let the reader understand- 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now-and never to be equaled again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-if that were possible. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
(from New International Version)

Mark 13:14-23

14 "When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong-let the reader understand-then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let no one on the roof of his house go down or enter the house to take anything out. 16 Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 17 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 18 Pray that this will not take place in winter, 19 because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now-and never to be equaled again. 20 If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. 21 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. 22 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect-if that were possible. 23 So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.
(from New International Version)

2 Thess 2:1-12
2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

5 Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
(from New International Version)

Rev 13:1-10
13:1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea.

And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 4 Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"

5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. 6 He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast-all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.

9 He who has an ear, let him hear.
10 If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity he will go.
If anyone is to be killed with the sword,
with the sword he will be killed.

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.
(from New International Version)

Rev 14:9-12

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
(from New International Version)

Rev 17
17:1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries."
3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5 This title was written on her forehead:
MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7 Then the angel said to me: "Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.
9 "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
12 "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings-and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
15 Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. 16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled. 18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
(from New International Version)

Rev 20:11-21:8

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Revelation 21

21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
(from New International Version)

Rev 22:10-17

10 Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."

12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.
(from New International Version)

Rev 22:20

20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."

Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
(from New International Version)



9 posted on 01/02/2006 10:06:00 PM PST by streetpreacher (If at the end of the day, 100% of both sides are not angry with me, I've failed.)
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To: Esther Ruth

I've read that this could be concerning the "Palestinians" (it most certainly concerns an Arab people):

Obad 15-18

15 "The day of the LORD is near
for all nations.
As you have done, it will be done to you;
your deeds will return upon your own head.
16 Just as you drank on my holy hill,
so all the nations will drink continually;
they will drink and drink
and be as if they had never been.

17 But on Mount Zion will be deliverance;
it will be holy,
and the house of Jacob
will possess its inheritance.
18 The house of Jacob will be a fire
and the house of Joseph a flame;
the house of Esau will be stubble,
and they will set it on fire and consume it.
There will be no survivors
from the house of Esau."
The LORD has spoken.
(from New International Version)

And here as well:

Isa 34:5-15

5 My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens;see, it descends in judgment on Edom,the people I have totally destroyed. 6 The sword of the LORD is bathed in blood,it is covered with fat--the blood of lambs and goats,fat from the kidneys of rams.For the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah and a great slaughter in Edom. 7 And the wild oxen will fall with them,the bull calves and the great bulls.Their land will be drenched with blood,and the dust will be soaked with fat.
8 For the LORD has a day of vengeance,a year of retribution, to uphold Zion's cause. 9 Edom's streams will be turned into pitch,her dust into burning sulfur;her land will become blazing pitch! 10 It will not be quenched night and day;its smoke will rise forever.From generation to generation it will lie desolate;no one will ever pass through it again. 11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it;the great owl and the raven will nest there.God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation. 12 Her nobles will have nothing there to be called a kingdom,all her princes will vanish away. 13 Thorns will overrun her citadels,nettles and brambles her strongholds.She will become a haunt for jackals,a home for owls. 14 Desert creatures will meet with hyenas,and wild goats will bleat to each other;there the night creatures will also repose and find for themselves places of rest. 15 The owl will nest there and lay eggs,she will hatch them, and care for her young under the shadow of her wings;there also the falcons will gather,each with its mate.
(from New International Version)


10 posted on 01/02/2006 10:06:23 PM PST by streetpreacher (If at the end of the day, 100% of both sides are not angry with me, I've failed.)
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To: streetpreacher

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now ---
Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!!!


11 posted on 01/03/2006 5:57:01 AM PST by Esther Ruth (I have loved thee with an EVERLASTING LOVE, Jeremiah 31:3 Genesis 12:1-3 ***ZECH 12:3)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.
Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking the keyword Israel.

---------------------------

12 posted on 01/03/2006 5:57:48 AM PST by SJackson (There's no such thing as too late, that's why they invented death. Walter Matthau)
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To: anotherview

Psalm 46:1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

Psa 46:2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;

Psa 46:3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.

Psa 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

Psa 46:11 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.


13 posted on 01/03/2006 6:04:35 AM PST by Esther Ruth (I have loved thee with an EVERLASTING LOVE, Jeremiah 31:3 Genesis 12:1-3 ***ZECH 12:3)
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To: hlmencken3

Psalm 125:1 They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.

Psalm 125:2 As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.


14 posted on 01/03/2006 6:09:53 AM PST by Esther Ruth (I have loved thee with an EVERLASTING LOVE, Jeremiah 31:3 Genesis 12:1-3 ***ZECH 12:3)
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To: Esther Ruth

http://www.jnewswire.com/library/article.php?articleid=929
'J'lem will be divided with fire all around'
Rightist MKs work to prevent surrender of Jewish capital

By Ryan Jones

January 2nd, 2006

A group of right-wing Israeli politicians from the National Union Knesset faction toured the eastern outskirts of Jerusalem Monday in an effort to highlight the growing threat to Israel's sovereignty over all of its ancient capital.

Led by outspoken Knesset Member Effi Eitam, the group spent much of its time inspecting unchecked illegal Arab construction in the areas between eastern Jerusalem and the nearby Jewish city of Ma'aleh Adumim.

That construction is by and large financed by the Palestinian Authority and wealthy donors from Saudi Arabia.

“Jerusalem is being divided before our eyes, and the illegal construction is going to block the continuity between the capital and Ma'aleh Adumim,” Ynet quoted Eitam as saying. “The capital of Israel will be surrounded by a fence, with a wall in its heart and fire all around it.”

While both Ariel Sharon and Amir Peretz, the current front runners in the race for Israel's premiership, have vowed to never divide Jerusalem, periodic statements by some of their top colleagues suggest otherwise.

In particular, Ehud Olmert, a close confidante of Sharon and a former mayor of Jerusalem, has gone on record as saying Israel would have no choice but to relinquish control over the predominantly Arab sections of eastern Jerusalem, including the Old City.

Observers fear such a surrender would not end with the Arab neighborhoods, but would see Israel also forced to relinquish major Jewish environs such as Gilo, French Hill and Ramat Eshkol.

But its not only Sharon and Peretz that concern some rightists.

Eitam is not convinced a government led by Likud leader Binyamin Netanyahu won't likewise give in to Arab and international demands on the holy city.

During his previous tenure as prime minister, Netanyahu succumbed to overwhelming American pressure and signed away the bulk of Hebron, King David's first capital, to the PLO. The town is now a stronghold for the Hamas terrorist organization.

The answer, Eitam says, is to support and hold accountable a Likud-led government with a strong bloc of MKs to its right.

“Without a strong rightist bloc to watch over the Likud, Netanyahu may divide Jerusalem or fail to prevent its division.”


15 posted on 01/03/2006 6:42:50 AM PST by Esther Ruth (I have loved thee with an EVERLASTING LOVE, Jeremiah 31:3 Genesis 12:1-3 ***ZECH 12:3)
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To: Esther Ruth

The time will come. We'll take it back. It's inevitable.


16 posted on 01/03/2006 6:33:20 PM PST by familyop
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To: Esther Ruth; anotherview; hlmencken3; streetpreacher
Some things in the Bible (the Bible) do not concern us others except for those of us who might one day be Jews. Malachi 3:6 should, and many others strive to ignore it.
17 posted on 01/03/2006 6:51:04 PM PST by familyop
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