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Yes and no. I went to school and dropped out. After one semester, I could not afford to continue and dropped out. I had to find another way to the bucks - I taught myself and learned what I could from others in the community. I taught myself programming basics in Pascal in less than six months and published a dozen pieces of minor shareware in that time. I built on that and learned C and some assmebler over the next 6, then went on to C++ and started writing conversions between higher level languages. At the same time, I soaked up everything I could get my hands on with regard to tech journals and hacker tutorials - everything from how a hard drive works to interrupt driven communications, and so on. At six months of owning my first PC, I'd rebuilt it from the ground up, knew it inside out, the concepts behind how everything worked, what could make it fail, etc. So, I began freelancing as a tech, troubleshooting software and hardware problems for the local scene. Within a year, I expanded and started tutoring people in programming languages and communications. My job, all along, was sales; but, eventually went to PC sales so that I was looking at the market from just about every angle. I was building, troubleshooting and repairing pcs in my offtime, tutoring people, etc.. And selling pcs and pc related material at my day job. After better than 10 years of that, I got my foot in the door at EDS.

When you don't have money, you do what you have to. It took a long time to get there and I'm just an average joe like most people. When I graduated from Highschool, you were lucky if you could afford college. I came from a home where both parents worked for GM; but, both had also been through several nasty divorces and had little to show for their years of hard work. In short, there was no money.. amazing how that works. No money really means no money. They are words with actual meaning. But apparently and presumably, you'll tell me that guys like me just need to go back to school - with no money. I make 7.00 an hour and gave up my 2nd job due to health concerns. I pulled in the belt and am barely getting by so long as no emergency ever comes my way. I'm sorry to say, that is how many of the people I work with are dealing with life right now as well. We appreciate that some have it better and are glad for them. On the other hand, we're also fed up to our eyeballs at listening to people who haven't a clue tell us about how easy it is to find or do better. It isn't. It may be in comparison to living under Stalin; but, we aren't interested in relativism. We're interested in reality. Reality is that there are no Good jobs here. The good jobs are leaving. There really aren't even any decent jobs here. If there were, we wouldn't be working for 7.00 an hour at the job we are working at. Nor would our manager who earns not much more than we do. She hates it that there are no jobs here as much as we do. On the other hand, she gets us for a bargain price because all the good jobs are gone - that's the benefit of the treason lobby wrecking the market.. And that's why it's being done - so that businesses don't have to work inside of supply and demand within the market to accomplish what they wish, instead they subvert the market like cheating at a computer game, if you will, tweaking the numbers so they get their desired result without having to play by the rules.. at least the rules as they used to be - ones where any person with morals or ethics would know better... When you amputate morals and ethics, treason is easy to commit.. but it's usually profitable, which is why we normally execute traitors or put them in jail for life or something like that. Selling out your neighbors for money is pretty skanky and frowned upon. Amazing how people tend to get all whiny about such petty things, ain't it..

I have enjoyed reading your posts on this thread, and for the most part, I agree with you. It is amazing to me that many on FR would cheerfully replace our badly broken tax system with a national sales tax scheme that, in my opinion, will lead either to massive economic dislocation or a black market -- the the inevitable draconian response by government -- but WILL NOT even consider using tried-and-true tariffs to finance government.

I scoffed at NAFTA when the "economists" claimed that bringing jobs to third world countries would create a new class of consumers who just couldn't wait to scarf up American products. Well, I think we all know how that worked out.

However, I do suggest that economics, like politics, is local. I see from your profile that you live in Indiana, and from what I hear, that state is indeed having hard times now. You seem very articulate and skilled; how tough would it be to relocate to a place where you could get a better reward for your work? I realize that it would be tough to leave familiar surroundings, but how tough compared to what all of our ancestors went through?

Calling your bluff, here is an opprotunity to up your education to stay ahead.

DESIGN-ENGINE|EDUCATION has joined the Workforce Investment Act effort to help the unemployed and underemployed gain career training that is enabling and empowering in the workplace. We can administer a three weeks of Pro/ENGINEER, SolidWorks, Alias Studio, Rhino, or 3d MAX. Or pick and choose. Two weeks of Pro/ENGINEER and a week of Solidworks.

This particular course may not be your choice, but through WIA and other grants/ low cost loans you can re up your education and climb on top of the pile again. A friend of mine who is a programmer for a major Biotech says that there are so few Americans, especially the young, who are interested in, or qualify for high end programming positions. Much of our workforce are complacent, including many of my friends, which cannot be said for developing countries such as India, where they are hungry.