Never said China was like a free nation.
Red China is getting a lot of our manufacturing sector. We are sending technology, wealth and jobs to them.
How many jobs are we sending them? And how many jobs are destroyed by our increase in productivity?
See post #71 (not mine).
You're referencing a Havoc post? That's funny!! I could go on for hours about the misconceptions Havoc labors (hehe) under, but someone who has been here as long as you have should already be aware of them.
I am desperately looking for someone who can prove that the manufacturing portion of the GDP is NOT grossly overstated by hedonics. Thanks.
If I can stop laughing long enough, I'll see what I can do.
Just a quick reply to correct something. .
See "Hypothetical Hocus-Pocus" in post #72
I first heard of hedonics from a transcript of Gordon R. Richards, NAM, testifying before the Subcommittee on the Census Committee on Government Reform U.S. House of Representatives On The quality of GDP data, and the Bureau of Economic Analysis.
http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/about/test-grr.pdf
"The redefinition of computer output was a crucial factor in driving the manufacturing revival of the late 1990s. . . Without the quality imputations to the real value of computers, this increase in the manufacturing share [of GDP] would not have been measured."
If you have time and find something please let me know anytime. Thanks.
(I have not forgotten your question (challenge?). To wit, "How many jobs are we sending them [China]? And how many jobs are destroyed by our increase in productivity?" I've been meaning to get estimates of those numbers myself, especially the former.)
Still looking for impartial numbers, etc.
A GAO Nov., 2005 report on offshoring included four impact issues:
* The average U.S. standard of living
* Employment and job loss
* Distribution of income
* Security and consumer privacy
Basically on each issue the study feels strongly both ways. Once again we need that one-armed economist Harry Truman sought in vain:
Offshoring will benefit U.S. living standards -- on the other hand. . . .
"Offshoring.of Services. An Overview of the Issues." GAO November, 2005
How to deal with it (policy)?
* Proposals to improve U.S. global competitiveness
* Proposals to address effects on the workforce
* Proposals to enhance security
* Proposals to reduce the extent of offshoring
An interesting note from proposals to deal with effects on the workforce. To wit, a "wage insurance program to replace a portion of wages at reemployment for workers who experience wage declines after displacement."
Hey! Why not? Corporations get taxpayer-backed cheap risk insurance and other goodies. Why not something for workers?
Wot?
Oh. Roght. That'd be socialism. :>)
The report is long but immediately makes it clear that "Determining appropriate policy responses to the offshoring phenomenon is especially challenging due to the limited state of knowledge about offshoring and its effects."
It also reminded me of something that is oft-overlooked, foregone job creation domestically.
But on to the GAO report's recommended Trade Adjustment Assistance program for displaced manufacturing workers and The Displaced Worker Survey part of the CPS where surely there are numbers -- gotta keep in mind one highly publicized government survey that was limited to mass layoffs that resulted from moving jobs "over there." I'm looking for all the numbers.
The Displaced Worker Survey I mentioned above appears to be for just three years only (1998 - 2000).
The Trade Adjustment Assistance program for displaced manufacturing workers looks like it may be expanded to cover lost service sector jobs and will require the Department of Labor to start keeping accurate data on offshoring. I do not know the current status of the bill.
"Rep. Adam Smith (D-WA) introduced the Trade Adjustment Assistance (TAAIA) Improvement Act Oct. 27, [2005] which if passed would extend benefits to displaced service workers, including software programmers and other high-tech workers."
The original and later amendments to the TAA provides benefits for manufacturing workers whose jobs have been offshored.
"Smith’s bill would simplify the application process for wage insurance, increase the funding cap for job training programs, and enhance health care subsidies for displaced workers of all types.
"And it would strengthen data collection and reporting requirements by making it mandatory for the Department of Labor to track and make public data on both service sector and manufacturing job trends and TAA usage. By requiring data to be tracked, the bill addresses the problem that there is a lack of statistics about employment and offshoring numbers to enable lawmakers to consider policy decisions about limiting offshoring through caps or taxes."
(Above from Internet sources)
Lack of statistics about employment and offshoring numbers? The government not keeping statistics? Strange. Is that like the governmnment not enforcing immigration laws, not knowing just how man ILLEGALs are here? Accurate numbers would upset the public maybe?
Wage insurance, I like it. Why not? Corporations get cheap risk insurance for their offshore investments -- workers certainly have their own investments in their careers.
Appears to be no numbers available except from guessing and partisan sources; e.g., one IT professional source put the number of their jobs lost at near 700,000.
As for jobs lost to productivity increases I am highly suspect of any numbers because there is "imported productivity." Is it productivity enhancements here or offshoring?
Again, there was a government report released a couple of years ago that pro-offshoring folks jumped on to prove that few jobs were being sent offshore -- but the report counted only mass layoffs of 50 or more employees.
So I cannot answer your questions but the news is awash with story after story of jobs already transferred and plans to send literally hundreds of thousands more offshore.