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To: Tommyjo
How can you say that when you agree that they got 1-F-117 and one F-16? Now as far as BUFF claims I didn't see that. But the fact of the matter is that the North Viets took down lots of BUFF's with way more primitive equipment than the Iranians have. I agree that a BUFF is over the top but ALL of the US military power couldn't find a downed fighter in the wide open desert and left a man in the field. I find it believable that there could be fighters down in the region that nobody has found.

In addition, the Iranians have been feverishly working on stealth tracking technology. They may have well figured it out.

As far as I can tell we no longer operate formal Wild Weasel Squadrons - if so then we are counting on HARM's launched by not the most experienced pilots. How dumb will we look when the Iranians bring down a B-2? Using the cell phone network as their eyes.

27 posted on 01/02/2006 4:35:33 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Never corner anything meaner than you. NSDQ)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Well you certainly didn't follow the media. Even Russian official military magazines such as Red Star were claiming b-52s and B-2s shot down! Good hype, but they forget that they are accountable under START. Both sides inspect and yet nobody has noticed any missing from the inventory during 1999 or to date.

You do realise the political implications of any of those undisclosed losses that you are hinting at? Clinton was in charge. He is on the record as confirming no losses of manpower to enemy action. All those claims of manned aircraft shot down and not one body repatriated or aircrew prisoner of war taken. Think of the nations that took part and and those governments and yet no one has spilled the beans on either a missing aircraft or the death/capture of any of its aircrew.

Please explain how you are going to cover up the loss of an airframe and keep it from going public? Every airframe is accountable through its registration, bureau number/construction number. You can't just re-open the production line to cover up the loss of an aircraft. Think of all the aviation enthusiasts who track aircraft serials and their unit histories. These are known as aircraft spotters and hang out by military airbases recording and photographing military aircraft. The NATO bases throught Europe were heaving with spotters during the conflict and recording serials deployed. Every aircraft has a track record how are you going to explain the missing aircraft to those enthusiasts?

Type into Google 'Scramble on the web' On this website you will see the detailed records and databases kept. Run through their databases and get back to me when you find aircraft missing from the inventories.

Think of the Crew Chiefs of that aircraft, maintenance people and the entire squadron and airbase. Think of the financial gain that could be made by selling the story of undisclosed losses to the media. Clinton hating press would have a field day if such a story broke. Think of all the nationalities involved in the air action and the cover up that would have to be put into effect to hide losses?

Sorry, but your use of the loss of the F/A-18 Hornet during Desert Storm just doesn't wash. The pilot was reported missing in combat and the loss of his aircraft was announced. Hard to cover up a missing aircraft from a carrier squadron. Same goes for those losses that you are hinting at over Yugoslavia. Hard to cover up the loss of a suadron aircraft from the base that it left from.

The Yugoslav Aeronautical Museum staff have accumulated approximately 1500 pieces of everything under the sun. Apart from the two manned aircraft losses (F-117A 82-806, and F-16CG 88-0550 and the remains of the starboard engine nacelle from A-10A 81-0967) even they have failed to produce anything other than UAVs, fuel tanks and remains of missile debris (Yugoslav and NATO). The "recovery teams" from the museums interviewed by UK aviation magazines revealed that some of their searches were conducted during air-raid alerts to try and recover interesting exhibits for the museum. Even they have failed to recover any other wreckage of manned NATO aircraft lost

As to your rambling on 'Wild Weasel'. There is no longer a requirement for hurling pink bodies at SAM radar sites as in the heady days of Vietnam. Ed Rasimus was a 'Wild Weasel' and had the follwing to say on the subject on Google groups:

'Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses (SEAD) is still an important mission, but "Weaseling" per se isn't. There were F-4G WW aircraft flying during Desert Storm, but the F-16CJ has assumed the anti-SAM role and the application is not quite the same as Weasel tactics. Technological developments including better radar warning receivers, stealth, better jamming, and better ARMs all have contributed to the change'


29 posted on 01/03/2006 3:14:23 AM PST by Tommyjo
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