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To: RaceBannon
"Well then, hereis the science that defends evolution

Piltdown Man

Feel better?"

Piltdown man was a hoax that was uncovered decades ago by evolutionists. It was never the center of evolutionary thought, nor is it today. I take it you had nothing real to offer, so you brought up your creationist talking point.

"Let's turn to the origin of man, and specifically, the fossil record of `Man'. Many people believe we have `proof' of evolution through the fossil record, yet is this true?"

No. Evolution, like all science, doesn't deal in proof. It deal with evidence.

" Ramapithicus, often pictured as walking erect, has been degrade to the status of extinct ape."

So?

"Australopithecine: not a missing link."

Wrong. Dead wrong. It's in our line of descent.

" Lucy has been compared to modem pygmy chimpanzees."

You have already been informed that this is an error:

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1346676/posts?q=1&&page=128

"Homo habilis was once called a missing link between Australopithecus and homo erectus, and a missing link between ape and man. Current conclusions are a chimpanzee, orangutan, or an Australopithecine."

Wrong. It is fully accepted as an ancestor. Current conclusions are that it is a transitional. It is not a chimp, orang, or australopithecine.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/1470.html

" Sianthropus..."

It's sinanthropus. You've misspelled it ever time you have posted it at FR and here:http://www.discussanything.com/forums/showpost.php?p=117964&postcount=20
It's Homo erectus now anyway. And there is nothing wrong with the skulls:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/monkeypeking.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a_peking.html

"Pithecanthropus, or Java Man, is based solely on the evidence of a skull cap dug up in 1891 on the banks of the Solo River in Java and a femur that was dug up 50 feet away and year later."

Nothing wrong with Java man either (which is also a homo erectus)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a_java.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/java15000.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/brace.html

" Nebraska Man..."

Was a mistake, never accepted by the scientific community, and never appeared in any scientific journals. It was not featured on the cover of Life. It was not mentioned in the Scopes Trial. Not once. Osborn never even testified there.
http://members.cox.net/ardipithecus/evol/lies/lie020.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/wolfmellett.html

" Piltdown Man..."

The one true hoax, uncovered by evolutionists. It was never fully accepted, and has not been used for many decades.

"Neanderthal Man was found in Neanderthal Valley in West Germany. Long accepted as a missing link, Neanderthal man has been proven to be human, very similar to Europeans today, yet with proven diseases such as rickets, syphilis, and arthritis."

False. It was not sick. There have been a number of new finds to show that it was indeed a separate species.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html#neandertals
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html#neandertals

" There is no proof that man evolved from an ape like creature."

Proof? No. Evidence? Tons. Google endogenous retroviruses.

"Human skeleton found 1. 6 million years old, by Richard Leaky( Wash. Post Oct 19, 1984)"

It was not a modern human, and neither Leakey nor the article said it was.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/jw-evolution.html

"MODERN AND TALL: Richard Leakey, "... the boy from Tukana was surprisingly large compared with modern boys his age... he would probably go unnoticed in a crowd today. This find combines with previous discoveries of Homo Erectus to contradict a long held idea that humans have grown larger over the millennia,"

This is not a quote from Leakey. It's from a National Geographic article. A later report said,

"In 1985 Richard Leakey and his colleagues reported the recovery of the remains of a remarkably complete skeleton of an approximately 12-year-old Homo erectus youth, which revealed some surprising anatomy. For instance, in the cervical and thoracic vertebrae, the hole through which the spinal cord runs is significantly smaller than in modern humans--presumably indicating a smaller demand for nerve signal traffic. In addition, the spines on all the vertebrae are longer and do not point as far back as in modern humans, the significance of which is puzzling.

"The thigh bone is unusual, in that the femoral neck is relatively long while the femoral head--which is part of the ball-and-socket joint with the pelvis--is large. This combination is something of a mix between modern human and australopithecine anatomy: modern humans have a short femoral neck attached to a large head, while in australopithecines the neck is long and the head is small.

"The pelvis itself indicates that the birth canal was smaller than in modern humans, which implies that infants born to Homo erectus mothers would have needed to continue fetal growth rates after birth. This so-called secondary altricial condition means that a more extended period of child care was inevitable, which might well have had important social consequences.

"The Homo erectus youth, which came from 1.6 million- year-old deposits on the west side of Lake Turkana in Kenya, is `the first [early fossil hominid] in which brain and body size can be measured accurately on the same individual', note Leakey and his colleagues."

It most certainly would NOT go unnoticed walking down the street.

"OLD" MODERN MAN: Louis Leakey, "In 1933 I published on a small fragment of jaw we call Homo Kanamens 1s, and I said categorically that this is not a near-man or ape, this is a true member of genus Homo. There were stone tools with it too. The age was probably around 2.5 to 3 million years. It was promptly put upon a shelf by my colleagues, except for two of them. The rest said it must be placed in a "suspense account". Now, 36 years later, we have proved I was right." Quoted in Bones of Contention, p.156"

He was wrong. "Kanjera Man, Kanam Jaw: discovered by Louis Leakey near Lake Victoria in 1932, and claimed by him to be very old and anatomically modern human ancestors. The Kanjera skull fragments were later shown to be modern humans buried in older sediments. The Kanam jaw may be very old, but is not as modern as Leakey thought. (Morell 1995)"
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a_anomaly.html

"The Dissidents No less an authority than the world-renowned paleontologist (with Dr. Colin Patterson) for the British Museum of Natural History, Dr. N. Etheridge...."

This is a laugh! Etheridge (not to be confused with Niles Eldredge, the contemporary evolutionist) was an Assistant Keeper of Geology in this Museum from 1881 to 1891. His name was Robert Etheridge, Junr., not Dr. N. Etheridge. It;s exceedingly disingenuous to use a 19th century anti-evolutionist, who was a nobody to boot, as a leading authority against evolution today. Par for the lying creationist course.

"Dr. Pierre P. Grasse, editor of the twenty-eight volumes of "Traite de Zoologie" and ex-president of the Academie des Sciences is considered to be the most distinguished of French zoologists. His conclusions? "The explanatory doctrines of biological evolution do not stand up to an in-depth criticism." (The Evolution of Living Organisms)"

Grasse was an evolutionist, though he was a Neo-Lamarkian one. He believed the world to be billions of years old. He was no creationist.

"Dr. Michael Denton, Molecular Biologist, evolutionist, concludes his 1986 book Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, thus: "Ultimately, the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more or less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century.... The truth is that despite the prestige of evolutionary theory and the tremendous intellectual effort directed towards reducing living systems to the confines of Darwinian thought, nature refuses to be imprisoned. The "mystery of mysteries" - the origin of new beings on earth - is still largely as enigmatic as when Darwin set sail on the Beagle"."

He has retreated from almost everything in this book. Keep up!


The Colin Patterson quote is a gross misrepresentation.
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/rncse_content/vol20/9832_ievolutioni_by_colin_patt_12_30_1899.asp

Your post was one lie after the other. And it's the same stuff, almost to the letter, you have been posting at least since 2001 here. Time to think up some new lies; at least amuse us.
110 posted on 12/31/2005 1:34:37 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman; RaceBannon

How is it that when creationists and ID advocates are listing scientific frauds, they never list the midwife toad?

And I'm still waiting to hear from Race as to whether he agrees with Behe, Denton and Dembski that common descent is a fact.


111 posted on 12/31/2005 1:37:15 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: jwalsh07; CarolinaGuitarman; RaceBannon
Your post was one lie after the other. And it's the same stuff, almost to the letter, you have been posting at least since 2001 here. Time to think up some new lies; at least amuse us.

I concur fully with CG's assessment of Racebannon's bag of previously demonstrated lies, evasions, canards, and misrepresentations. Do you still think that Race' should get a free pass on the need to be honest because he is "a marine and a fine American".

117 posted on 12/31/2005 2:07:06 PM PST by Thatcherite (More abrasive blackguard than SeaLion or ModernMan)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Sorry, I presented the evidence of the experts that refute your claims.

That means I won.


121 posted on 12/31/2005 2:44:27 PM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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