UK to take up Russian Hindu cause

HindustanTimes.com ^ | December 29, 2005 | Nabanita Sircar

[Tailgunner Joe]

The campaign against the alleged harassment of Hindus in Russia by the Orthodox Church and the Mayor of Moscow is getting more intense in Britain.

Ashok Kumar, MP is launching the "Defend Russian Hindus Campaign" at the House of Commons in January.

There was umbrage here when it was learnt that Archbishop Nikon wrote a letter to the Mayor of Moscow urging him not to allow the construction of a Hindu temple in Moscow because according to him, Lord Krishna who is worshipped by the Hindu community was an "evil demon".

"Such untenable words in an age where interfaith harmony is the need of the day are nothing but an attempt to malign and persecute a faith community that teaches respect and freedom for every other faith community, " commented Ramesh Kallidai, Secretary General Hindu Forum of Britain, an umbrella organisation of most community groups in Britain.

The Defend Russian Hindus Campaign, launched by the Hindu Forum of Britain, Hindu Council UK, National Council of Hindu Temples UK, International Society for Krishna Consciousness, Vishwa Hindu Parishad UK, Hindu Council of Australia, Hindu American Foundation and many other worldwide Hindu organisations, aims to build awareness about the alleged persecution and discrimination against Russian Hindus by a corpus of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Mayor of Moscow, despite support from the Central Government.

There are over 100,000 Hindus in Russia. In Moscow alone, there are 5,000 Hindus of Indian origin and over 10,000 Hindus of Russian origin.

Two years ago the Mayor of Russia asked Hindus to vacate their temple in exchange for a piece of land on which they could build a bigger temple. After land was allocated to the Hindu temple, the original temple was demolished. The Russian Orthodox Church orchestrated mass protests against the allocation of land and started a misinformation campaign against Hindus in the media.

On October 30, 2005, after bowing down to pressure from the Orthodox Church, the Mayor of Moscow cancelled the land order and took away the piece of land given for the construction of the Hindu temple. Now, the 15,000 Hindus in Moscow have no place to worship. The consecrated Deities of Radha and Krishna will have no home, say the Hindu leaders.

Kallidai said around the time of India Prime Minister's state visit to Moscow to meet Russian President Putin, Archbishop Nikon, a leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, called the Hindu God, Lord Krishna an "evil demon, the personified power of hell opposing God", and "a livid lascivious youth".

[Tailgunner Joe]

play nice, kids.

[Hill of Tara]

"Two years ago the Mayor of Russia "

The mayor of Russia?

[Hill of Tara]

Perhaps Russia should guard it's borders more closely and start deporting the foreigners.

They come to a Christian country and demand to build a temple on a site selected for a church?

"The consecrated Deities of Radha and Krishna will have no home, say the Hindu leaders. "

Oh my, whatever shall we do?

[Lion in Winter]

So they have no place to worship thier idols!! BIG BOO HOO!!

They can always get on back to India if it bothers them so much.

[Hill of Tara]

"They can always get on back to India if it bothers them so much."

Exactly. They have no right to try to impose their uncivilized culture upon a Christian nation and its people.

But I bet they won't go back to India unfortunately, because they can't earn much money in that 3rd world hellhole.

[jb6]

There was umbrage here when it was learnt that Archbishop Nikon wrote a letter to the Mayor of Moscow urging him not to allow the construction of a Hindu temple in Moscow because according to him, Lord Krishna who is worshipped by the Hindu community was an "evil demon".

Oh wow, you mean a religious leader doesn't have the right to say what his faith teaches him?

"Such untenable words in an age where interfaith harmony is the need of the day are nothing but an attempt to malign and persecute a faith community that teaches respect and freedom for every other faith community, " commented Ramesh Kallidai, Secretary General Hindu Forum of Britain, an umbrella organisation of most community groups in Britain.

Ahh, that explains it, modern nihilistic PC crap. The British best take care of their own "garden" before there is a Paris happening in London.

As for the temple, there was no place in Moscow proper that it would fit the architecture adn the city didn't allow it. They were told, however, that they could open it outside the city. You've heard of zoning, right? Russia also has a Manohra on Red Square right now, how TGJ you missed that article, I'll never know, since I did post it.

Also, the world's biggest Buddhist temple just opened in eastern Russia, so sorry, your half arsed attempt to start a war on FR failed.

[Lejes Rimul]

As opposed to a second world hellhole. < rimshot>

[Gengis Khan]

Guys Check this:

 

Hill of Tara writes :

 

Perhaps Russia should guard it's borders more closely and start deporting the foreigners.

They come to a Christian country and demand to build a temple on a site selected for a church?

"The consecrated Deities of Radha and Krishna will have no home, say the Hindu leaders. "

Oh my, whatever shall we do?

 

Lion in Winter writes:

 

So they have no place to worship thier idols!! BIG BOO HOO!!

They can always get on back to India if it bothers them so much.

Hill of Tara replies:

"They can always get on back to India if it bothers them so much."

Exactly. They have no right to try to impose their uncivilized culture upon a Christian nation and its people.

But I bet they won't go back to India unfortunately, because they can't earn much money in that 3rd world hellhole.

(Hill of Tara signed up on Since Dec 4, 2005.)

 

The anti-Hindu rhetoric just keeps getting better and better.

[x5452]

Indeed, it's sad to watch the pridefully faithless deride those who actually beleive the doctrine of the church.

[jb6]

Simple fact is, a religious leader has the right to say what ever he wants, just like any other person. If it upsets someone else, to bad, its free speach. The temple wasn't banned out right, it was not allowed to be built in the city center, which is the right of th city council to decide, just like in any western city.

As for the British, they should mind their own damn business.

[familyop]

Russia's not been very tolerant of religions other than Orthodox Christianity for a very long time. The former Soviet Communist government and the reigns of the Czars were even worse than the current government there.

Russian Rabbi Investigated for Distributing Book of Jewish Law [Update, more info.]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1431369/posts

Russia probing whether Jewish law constitutes incitement ["first time since Stalin's regime"]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1431367/posts

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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1431407/posts

[A. Pole]

UK to take up Russian Hindu cause

UK should definitely build the temple to goddess Kali in center of London . Brits need more diversity.

THE THUGGEE

No organized cult of killers has ever murdered as many people as the Thuggee. In the 1830s this Indian secret society strangled upward of 30,000 native people and travelers as a sacrifice to their goddess Kali, the "Dark Mother," the Hindu Triple Goddess of creation, preservation, and destruction. The name Thuggee comes from the Sanskrit sthaga, "deceiver."

Although the Thuggee probably originated sometime in the sixteenth century, they were not uncovered by British authorities until about 1812. Great Britain was beginning to expand its territories in India, and the British administrators were becoming increasingly alarmed by reports of bands of stranglers that were roving the countryside murdering travelers. At first there appeared to be no connection between the bizarre killings, but then the bodies of 50 victims were found hidden in a series of wells in the Ganges area. Such large-scale mass murder could not have been kept secret for so long unless special pains had been taken to dispose of the victims' corpses. Examination of the bodies revealed that the murderers had broken all joints of their victims' limbs to speed up the process of decomposition and to prevent the swelling of the graves that would attract scavenging jackals and other wild animals. Such evidence convinced the authorities that they were dealing with one secret society, the Thuggee.

The murderous craft of the Thuggee was hereditary. Its practitioners were trained from earliest childhood to murder by the quick, quiet method of a strong cloth noose tightened about the neck of their victims. This weapon, the "Rumal," was worn knotted about the waist of each member of the Thuggee.

The Thuggee gloried in silent and efficient acts of murder above any other earthly accomplishment, and they traveled often in the guise of traders, pilgrims, and even as soldiers marching to or from service. On occasion, the more flamboyant would pretend to be a rajah with a large retinue of followers. Each band of Thuggee had a small unit of scouts and inveiglers who would loiter about hotels and market places gaining information regarding travelers and the weight of their coin purses. The inveiglers posed as travelers headed for the same destination as their intended victims. They would worm themselves into the confidences of their prey, pleading the old adage of safety in numbers.

The mass slaughters of large groups of merchants and travelers were usually committed when all were encamped. Working in groups of three, one Thuggee would loop the Rumal around the victim's neck, another would press his head forward, and the third would grab his legs and throw him to the ground. In the rare instance when an intended victim escaped the nooses in the death area, he would run into scouts posted at the edge of the jungle. One hundred percent mortality of their victims was the goal of the Thuggee.

In spite of what first appeared to be indiscriminate murder on a very large scale, the Thuggee had a peculiar code of ethics whose rules forbade the killing of fakirs, musicians, dancers, sweepers, oil vendors, carpenters, blacksmiths, maimed or leprous persons, Ganges water-carriers, and women. Despite the restriction against the murder of females, however, the presence of wives traveling with their husbands often necessitated the strangling of a woman to protect the secrecy of the society.

The strongest rule of the brotherhood was the one prohibiting the shedding of blood. According to Thuggee beliefs, the goddess Kali taught the fathers of thuggery to strangle with a noose and to kill without permitting the flow of blood. All victims of the Thuggee were sacrificed to Kali, and the members of the secret society would have been greatly incensed by an accusation that they killed only for booty.

With the exception of a small number of boys who may have been captured or spared during a raid, a man had to be born into the cult in order to become an initiate. The minimum age for initiation into the society was 10, and the young candidates were allowed to watch their elders at work from hidden points some distance from the site of the attack. At the age of 18, they were permitted to make their first human sacrifices to Kali.

The Thuggee had their female counterparts in a secret sect of Tantrists who held that it was only by a constant indulgence in passion that a human could ever achieve total union with Kali. Only indulgence in the five vices that corrupt the soul of humankind— wine, meat, fish, mystical gesticulations, and sexual indulgence—could drive the poisons out of the human body and purify the soul.

In 1822, William Sleeman, an officer in the Bengal Army who had transferred to civil service, was appointed by Governor General Lord Bentinck to rid India of the society of stranglers. Fluent in four Indian dialects, Sleeman had been the British official who had first confirmed the growing suspicion that the murders were committed throughout central India by the Thuggee. He was well aware that it would be no easy task putting a halt to such large-scale murders, for the members of the secret society were indistinguishable from any other of the many bands of outlaws who infested the country's roads. And what made the job of identifying the Thugs even more difficult was the fact that they were indistinguishable from any of the travelers and merchants who were their victims. As their name implied, they were master deceivers.

Finally, by meticulously marking the scene of each discovered attack site on a map and by maintaining careful records of the dates, Sleeman was able to begin to predict the areas where the next mass murders were likely to take place. When his agents and informants brought him word that known members of the Thuggee had been seen in a certain region, Sleeman sent his personally recruited police officers out disguised as merchants in order to ambush the Thugs who appeared to attack what they believed was a group of harmless travelers.

Between 1830 and 1841, Sleeman's police captured at least 3,700 Thugs, breaking forever the back of the infamous secret society. Of this total, only 50 received a pardon for supplying valuable information that had been utilized in destroying the secret society. The remainder of those apprehended were imprisoned for life and 500 were hanged. Without exception, the Thuggee condemned to be hanged went to their own deaths with the same lack of emotion with which they had murdered their victims. In many instances, their final request from the hangman was that they be permitted to place the noose around their own neck.

Trials of Thuggee brought out many ghastly facts about the deadly skills of some of its members. A band of 20 confessed that they had participated in 5,200 murders. An individual named Buhram, who had been a strangler for 40 years, had the highest lifetime score to his discredit—931. When asked if he experienced any feelings of remorse or guilt, he answered sharply that no man should ever feel compunction in following his trade.

Although isolated cases of a Thug's proficiency with a noose still exist in India and in other parts of the world, the stranglers of the goddess Kali no longer exist as a secret society. The designation of "thug," however, remains as a negative term applied to brutish criminals.

The violent chapter imprinted in India's history by the cult of the Thuggee has been portrayed quite often in motion pictures, notably Gunga Din (1939) with Cary Grant, Douglas Fairbanks, Jr., and Victor McLaglen; Terence Fisher's Stranglers of Bombay (1960); Steven Spielberg's Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (1984) with Harrison Ford and Kate Capshaw; and The Deceivers (1988) with Pierce Brosnan.

Encyclopedia of the Unusual and Unexplained: The Thuggee

[CarrotAndStick]

The Thuggees are long gone, along with Rasputin, the Inquisitiont, the Witch Trials and the like...

[dennisw]

Where was this Orthodox prelate when mosques were being built in Moscow an all over Russia? The real Russian disgrace is Vlad Putin aligning his nation, his nation's nuclear reactor manufacturers and his nation's arms makers with the Muslim nations. Hindus are a footnote. Hindus do not proselytize or force conversions. Hindus make very immigrants in the United States.

Hindus may be idolaters by they do not try to force their religion on anyone

[dennisw]

There was umbrage here when it was learnt that Archbishop Nikon wrote a letter to the Mayor of Moscow urging him not to allow the construction of a Hindu temple in Moscow because according to him, Lord Krishna who is worshipped by the Hindu community was an "evil demon".

Allah is the evil demon I'm worried about. Krishna isn't evil. He's just a Hindu god

[A. Pole]

The Thuggees are long gone

They are not, they are driven more into underground, the worship of Kali continues - it is an integral part of Hinduism. This is from the text above: "isolated cases of a Thug's proficiency with a noose still exist in India and in other parts of the world". They are isolated - ie harder to track.

[CarrotAndStick]

The Thuggees have gone. Most of the forests where they thrived, in a small region of India, is gone. They aren't there. And they are certainly not an integral part of "Hinduism", if such a religion really exists as a united entity. Remember, deviants and crazies are there in every religion, but in a disproportionate fashion in Islam.

[TexConfederate1861]

Allow me to add some MORE....

Russia is and has been a CHRISTIAN country for 1000 years.
They do not have to give the Hindu Demon Worshippers any rights at all. At least THEY have the guts to stop pagans from dictating terms......

[Wiz]

I thought Russians were close allies with India and tensions between the two were unlikely, but is the environment changing?