File it under 'Jeez, Not This ***t Again'. I'll be at a quilt shop spending money.
Posted on 12/29/2005 11:45:43 AM PST by NYer
Tonight, ABC’s “Primetime” will air a segment, “On the Trail of Pope Joan,” that raises questions about the possible existence of Pope Joan. Catholic League president Bill Donohue weighed in today:
“ABC has been busy questioning the divinity of Jesus for years, what with its infamous ‘Search for Jesus’ specials. In May of this year, it went back to the well again with a ‘20/20’ episode questioning the resurrection of Jesus. Correspondent Elizabeth Vargas told viewers: ‘Whether the resurrection proclaimed by the disciples was physical, metaphysical, or simply a hallucination—the dreams of grieving followers,’ is not known. In other words, Christians have likely been duped. And tonight we learn that we’ve been duped again—a woman pope ruled in the ninth century.
“Diane Sawyer not only wants us to believe in Pope Joan, she takes us to exact street where she processed. ‘Fact or Fiction’ she exclaims! Indeed, Sawyer tells us that Pope Joan gave birth while processing. Pope Joan, she says, dressed in male garb, but this is not an historical anomaly: Sawyer shows us a picture of a woman dressed as a soldier in the U.S. Civil War and then proclaims, ‘Which brings us back to Joan.’ But of course. Another segue could have been little girls dressed up as GI Joe on Halloween, but that might have unsettled the sure-mouthed Sawyer.
“Sawyer does not interview either Paul Johnson, the world renowned historian and author of ‘The Papacy,’ nor does she interview Eamon Duffy, the brilliant historian from Cambridge and author of the magisterial volume, ‘Saints and Sinners: A History of the Popes.’ Had she done so they would have laughed in her smug face. So who does she rely on? Donna Cross and Mary Malone. Cross wrote a novel about the mythical Pope Joan and has no standing among scholars. Malone is an ex-nun who lost her faith and hates the Catholic Church. ‘I can no longer pray,’ she said in 1996, ‘because of the language, and because it seemed so essential as the core of the tradition that God be male.’
“In other words, ABC’s gospel has no room for Jesus but plenty of room for Pope Joan. We could squeeze more truth from a used-car salesman than we could from these people.”
File it under 'Jeez, Not This ***t Again'. I'll be at a quilt shop spending money.
(2) The early history of the Papacy, from Peter to St. Gregory the Great, is incredibly awe-inspiring. The world's first system of leadership based on goodness, not military power.
(3) No Pope ever "held orgies" - that's a myth spread by uneducated idiots with an agenda. There isn't the slightest shred of evidence to support such a charge.
It is well known that John XII threw wild sex parties.
Little Joan was not feelin' well...
She was afraid she might go to hell...
But she never gave up hope...
even when she became the Pope..
Said hey Joan, take a walk on the wild side.
>> It's an "Urban" myth...........<<
Funny you should mention that... I think Pope Urban was the real Pope. :^D
Sometimes history isn't pretty.
You are likely more correct in pegging the time frame. But I would say the fist 700 years of a 2000 year religion could be considered "early".
He definitely had an affair with one woman - the widow of one of his political rivals from his secular career, and this affair almost certainly continued during his Papacy.
He also supposedly played at dice and hunted and completely neglected his duties in favor of politicking.
In other words, he behaved exactly like a typical petty nobleman of his day, instead of taking his responsibilities seriously.
But not even his most dogged enemies accused him of holding orgies.
No, he did not. His enemies referred to the Lateran as a brothel because he brought his mistress there - an absolutely disgusting display - but no one seriously claimed that actual prostitutes were plying their trade in the Lateran.
The actual facts of John XII life are extremely ugly - he was an immoral, irreligious slob.
There's no need to invent unattested tales of orgies and brothels.
Debunked here:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08407a.htm
Scroll down to "fiction 4", here:
http://www.love2learn.net/religion/samples/popefict.htm
I would suggest people complain:
http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=131877&page=1
Actually I remember Paul Harvey telling this story when I was young.
There are segments of the old bible that are not allowed
because they refer to this incident.
I grew up believing this for 50 years.
may or may not be true but what an impression it made
in me.
Gosh, I didn't know that! How did I miss it in my studies of history, it being so well known and all?
In the 10th century the city of Rome fell under the control of a few powerful families who ruled the city like Mafiosi since the political order of Europe was chaotic and there were no external checks on these gangster families.
They used their power to coerce the clergy of Rome to elect their sympathizers to the Papacy.
John XII was one of these Popes.
Benedict VII tried to break the hold these families had over the Papacy and insituted some strong reforms in 981. In 999, Frenchman Gerbert D'Aurillac - the well-known scholar - came to Rome to set matters in order and the Cluniac reformers followed in his wake.
John XII was a sickening anomaly, not a typical Pope even for his time.
Their privies had no absolutely no privacy back then. Bathroom habits for most people were pretty public. It wouldn't take too long before someone would noticed. I guess this fact eludes the MSM.
"But not even his most dogged enemies accused him of holding orgies."
From wikipedia:
"Much that is alleged about the pornocracy comes from the histories of Liutprand, bishop of Cremona. Liutprand took part in the Assembly of Bishops which deposed Pope John XII and was a political enemy of Rome; he is described by the Catholic Encyclopedia as "ever a strong partisan and frequently unfair towards his adversaries." The worst excesses of the time might be considered no more than ecclesiastic gossip."
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