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To: Dane
But outside the scientific community, Hamer says, it's still widely believed that gay people somehow choose their orientation and this further fuels discrimination.

Further fuels discrimination??? What a load of crap. The real reason this man does this is to fuel the we-hate-being-called-for-what-we-are crowd. Gays seek nothing more than legitimization for their actions in all ways possible. They are on average more affluent, educated and traveled than the general populace, are less than 2-3% of the population but CONTROL more politicians than any sub group except for the AARP types. They seek legitimization by infiltration of all churches to make gay pastors and priests simply to be able to say "See, even the Church of XXXXXX says were normal."

In this process they tear down societal norms, destroy rights of association guaranteed under the constitution and claim discrimination to a greater degree than do Blacks or Women and yet have not one shred of peer reviewed, valid and convincing study that supports their genetic predisposition claims. Its always a "gay researcher" who comes up with the next great study.

Look at the recent film out in the theaters. Gays and gay supporters laud this movie as some new high water mark in society all the while failing to show the film for what it does...legitimizes an adulterous affair of two me who while married and with families cheat on their wives with each other. Oh, that is such a wonderful thing to do in the name of your so-called "sexual orientation." Their sky-is-falling rant and raving about how oppressed they are falls on mostly deaf ears because it is built on a mountain of lies. Making claims to being born that way while denying those who have LEFT homosexuality shows their willful desire to do nothing more than make it acceptable.

41 posted on 12/29/2005 11:04:42 AM PST by ICE-FLYER (God bless and keep the United States of America)
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To: ICE-FLYER
Geneticist Dean Hamer says he never chose to be attracted to men.

Implied Premise: Sexual orientation (further implied homosexual behavior) is a trait you are born with, like hair color…

Counter argument: Fact: Heterosexually oriented adults exist who choose for religious reasons to be celibate. Obviously, adults have the power to choose to be celibate. Therefore, sexual orientation is irrelevant to the choice to engage in sexual activity whether it is heterosexual or homosexual. In other words, regardless of whether or not someone is “BORN homosexual” (a point which I do not grant), their voluntary choices determine their behavior (i.e., “being celibate, or not).

Science may not have all the answers, but if given the chance, it could at least inform these debates.

Counter argument: Fact: Procreation (without extraordinary scientific intervention, i.e., in-vitro fertilization, etc.) is impossible to exclusively homosexual behavior practitioners. Therefore, unless homosexuality is a genetic anomaly (mutation or defect), the owners of this trait would completely disappear from the population in a few generations or less.

Counter argument: Fact: Genetic anomalies which preclude their victims from reproducing appear in the population at the sum total rate of less than 0.5%, according to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). Therefore, if homosexuality were a genetic anomaly (i.e., an inborn trait resulting from a mutation, defect, etc.), it would appear in the population at much lower incidence than is observed (something between 1%-10%). Therefore, it is a logical conclusion that all but 0.5% of homosexuals (at most) behave as such out of choice.

Counter argument: Fact: Homosexual behaviors observed (B.F. Skinner, et al) in non-human animals are neurotic, abnormal singularities and require artificial, forced conditions (e.g., overcrowding) and are never seen in the normal habitat and behavior of these animals. Therefore, homosexual behavior in animals and, by extended implication, in humans, is not an inborn trait but a behavioral response to an environmental condition or situation resulting in a neurosis. In the case of humans, all behavioral responses including neuroses that are not pathological psychoses are voluntary and controllable.

Conclusion: Homosexual behavior is an individual choice, i.e., a voluntary behavior regardless of the existence of a genetic predisposition or lack of such. Since all voluntary behavior is subject to prohibition or other regulation by law at the behest of the majority of the governed, homosexuality is as much subject to legal prohibition as is rape, incest, bestiality, etc.
45 posted on 12/29/2005 11:37:39 AM PST by Lucky Dog
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