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To: zook
Freedom, total or otherwise, has consequences.

Under what circumstances do you deem the consequences of sufficient gravity to dispense with freedom?

Me, I think Franklin is correct. You will not gain security by sacrificing freedom, and those who tell you that you will are lying.

178 posted on 12/30/2005 7:59:40 AM PST by lugsoul ("Try not to be sad." - Laura Bush)
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To: lugsoul

I think Franklin thought himself up a clever slogan, one which he would certainly reverse were he alive today.

Our homeland has been attacked and has been threatened with further attack. Those who would insist on some total right to privacy in their dealings with foreign enemies, real and potential, are guilty of one of two things:

1. Either they hope America's enemies are successful or
2. They are blind to the fact that they are trading security for a liberty that will only be temporary.


181 posted on 12/30/2005 8:24:17 AM PST by zook
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To: lugsoul
Me, I think Franklin is correct. You will not gain security by sacrificing freedom, and those who tell you that you will are lying.

Nobody has more respect for Franklin, Henry, Washington, Jefferson, etc. than I do. But let's get serious here. When these guys were in the prime of their lives, the automobile and the aeroplane were more than 100 years away from being invented, and wars were fought with rifles, cannons, and horses.

As smart as these men all were, I seriously doubt that any of them ever truly conceived of things like ICBMs armed with nuclear warheads capable of going thousands of miles per hour, and biological weapons capable of being transported in a suitcase that could infect and kill thousands or tens of thousands of people. The reality of the world is a lot different today than it was in 1776, and it's foolish to pretend otherwise.

183 posted on 12/30/2005 8:30:21 AM PST by jpl
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To: lugsoul; zook
Freedom, total or otherwise, has consequences.

Freedom includes freedom from government control and freedom from anarchist(terrorist) control.

184 posted on 12/30/2005 8:33:49 AM PST by FreeReign
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