'Honor' killings shock Pakistan

cnn ^

[blueminnesota]

CNN doesn't need a defense on this. "Conservative" means adhering to traditional values. "Liberal" means less traditional, modernizing, changing. CNN clearly put that Pakistan is a COSERVATIVE ISLAMIC country. It adheres to traditional Islamic values without wanting to change. Get over your conspiracy complex.

[hershey]

B....but this is their culture. We should honor it. Multiculturalism and all that. NOT!

[Sthitch]

Since this was all about honor for this guy they should let him go. But first they need to force him to star in a gay porn movie, where he plays the subservient role, then distribute the movie and stills from the movie throughout the village. Then set him free. I am sure that his honor will be sufficiently diminished.

[Maneesh]

"And how exactly does murdering 3 little girls uphold 'honor'?
Islam and honor are both mutually exclusive."

As someone who grew up in India I can explain this. In the ME, family honor is paramount and is essential to maaintain group think. Individual thought and going against the mainstream is strongly discouraged. If a girl is even found with a guy out in public before marriage, the whole family is black listed and is an outcast life becomes hell for them. The man of the house is then obligated to eliminate the source of the dishonor which is girls. It is insane and abhorrent from our point if view but in their world view it is the right thing to do. Meanwhile these same men can have multiple wives and mistresses (temporary wives) and that is permissible in Islam. It is the most horrendous religion for women and they have no rights at all.

[ZULU]

"I wish that I get a chance to eliminate the boy she ran away with and set his home on fire."


I can relate to this, but not to the other murders.

[HEY4QDEMS]

Get over your conspiracy complex.

Just so I don't offend anyone, I ask that you read my mind to figure out my response to that remark.

Creep!

[OldFriend]

Were they shocked when Daniel Pearl was beheaded in Pakistan?

[SittinYonder]

Unfortunately their history leaves no doubt in my mind what their agenda is.

And you're probably right. But a conservative Islamist is not the same as a Republican. To avoid being confused with someone who would commit honor killings, I just tell people when they ask my political persuasion that I am a conservaliberpublictarian. Oh, and I'm a Christian, and Christians don't kill their kids.

[blueminnesota]

"Creep" yourself. I'm not the one lacking in understanding of basic terminology. Get thee to a dictionary.

[pepperdog]

This is just my take on it: Men in this sick culture don't have to behave in any civilized fashion, their "honor" is their women, so if they need to cleanse their honor all they have to do is say any failing they have is the fault of a woman in the family. Then they kill the woman to reclaim their honor. Handy, huh?

[Maneesh]

"Were they shocked when Daniel Pearl was beheaded in Pakistan?"

of course not, Daniel Pearl was a jew, the worst kind of infidel. Killing a jew by beheading puts you in the hall of fame of good behaviour for life.

[HEY4QDEMS]

But a conservative Islamist is not the same as a Republican

I agree 100%, secondly, I consider myself a conservative Christian but not a Republican.

I have never associated Conservatism with Republicanism. GWB is a good example, he is a Republican, but no one can honestly call him conservative.

[Syllojism]

You have to understand that Muslims hold honor foremost in all things. In the Islamic marriage ceremony, the mates declare that they are of the same blood and the same heart. In her act of adultery, this man's daughter betrayed her blood, and therefore his as well.

So-called "honor killings" are widely misunderstood. The proper way to have handled this would have been for the adulteress to approach one of her siblings and ask him or her to perform the Mauk-to 'Vor, a ritualized and consentual execution with a special knife called a ma'veq for the purpose of restoring ones lost honor and ensuring his or her entrance to Sto-vo-kor, the Muslim warrior afterlife. It is not considered appropriate to take the life of a family member forcefully over a matter of the victim's personal honor, however badly it reflects upon the family. Taking ones own life is also strictly forbidden; although there are many forms of ritualized "suicide" in Islamic culture, they all - like the Mauk-to 'Vor, or the Hegh'bat in which a Muslim who can no longer fight due to injury decides to end his life - involve a family member or close friend wielding the weapon.

The cuckolded spouse would have been well within his rights to divorce the woman. Under Islamic law, this can be accomplished merely by striking her, uttering the phrase "N'Gos tlhogh cha!", and spitting on her. Although he could challenge her to ritual combat, it is more likely he would challenge the woman's lover. The father, however, faced with a dishonored and unrepentant daughter, could only legitimately take action in formal accusation before the council of his House. In challenging the accusation, she would select a cha'Dich to defend her before the Council. Because the right of a Muslim House to perform executions is archaic and rarely invoked, if she lost the challenge, she would most likely be discommended rather than executed - the members of her House would quite literally turn their backs on her, and she would become a non-entity.

As for the other daughters, what he did is not even remotely backed up by Islamic tradition. Clearly he was afraid they would commit the same sin as their eldest sister when they got older, but his murder of his own progeny is a much worse dishonor upon himself and his House than the act of adultery. This is why this has caused such a shock, and why the case was brought before the Muslim High Council. If discommended by the High Council his very House will fall, as if it had never existed, being such a minor one. Either way, it is likely he will be executed if his challenge fails. Because his victims were family members, the usual rule of his dishonor passing down to his direct decendents several generations likely would not apply, if he had any surviving children.

I hope this answered your question and increased your understanding of Islamic ways.

[SittinYonder]

is one in the same with a fundamentalist Islamist

I consider myself a conservative Christian

Are you a fundamentalist Christian? Had CNN used this term rather than conservative, they would have been damned for trying to link fundamentalist Islam with fundamentalist Christianity.

Sometimes a word is just a word and there is no intent behind it. LOL ... We should rather applaud CNN for bothering to announce the guy was an Ismalist at all. Usually that's the sort of inflammatory information they don't care to share with us easily exciteable viewers.

[Uncle Vlad]

How many, this extreme, are in the US?

The primary sect of Islam in the United States is the Wahhabist strain of Islam. It just hasn't fully come out of the closet over here yet. I imagine they're watching everything going on in Australia very closely now. If the government and the PC police roll over for them look for the Wahhabis in this country to become very militant very quickly.

[Maneesh]

Thanks for your eloquent explanation, I am not sure if you were justifying this act or merely explaining it. The fact is that thousands of honor killings happen every year and it is an evil and abhorrent practice which needs to be condemned in the strongest fashion unequivocally. When Western intellectuals start explaining this barbaric behaviour as just "different" and a "misunderstood culutral expression" we lose moral clarity and that is the path to liberalism. This is a very black and white issue to me. Where is the feminist outrage on this issue ?

[Kokojmudd]

Yep, according to CNN only Islamists, Communists and Republicans can be conservatives.

[RouxStir]

"If the government and the PC police roll over for them look for the Wahhabis in this country to become very militant very quickly."

That's pretty much happening in the US right now. But look for red states to become even more militant than muz-scums.

[Maneesh]

"The primary sect of Islam in the United States is the Wahhabist strain of Islam. It just hasn't fully come out of the closet over here yet. I imagine they're watching everything going on in Australia very closely now. If the government and the PC police roll over for them look for the Wahhabis in this country to become very militant very quickly."

Very astute observation. The Wahabbi - Salafi movement has infiltrated US universities, media and the govt and they are just waiting for the right moment to take jihad to the next level. The vast majority of mulsims in the USA have no allegiance to this nation but only to Islam and the re-creation of the caliphate. The book "Future Jihad" by Walid Phares does an excellent job of explaining all this.