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To: DallasMike; editor-surveyor; Cicero; keithtoo; manwiththehands; johnnyb_61820

Order can arise spontaneously out of disorder: an example.

You can do this in your kitchen. Take 1 cup of water, 1 cup of oil (olive or mazola or motor will do), pour into cocktail shaker and shake vigorously for 1 minute. Pour into a clear glass container.

You will see a very great deal of disorder in the liquid. Leave undisturbed for 1-2 hours (doesn't matter if there is light or darkness).

Observe again: You will see that the oil has spontaneously ("miraculously"?) risen to the top, and the water is nicely separated below. ORDER has appeared.

Please explain this via your interpretation of the 2nd Law and entropy.


94 posted on 12/28/2005 4:23:57 PM PST by thomaswest (Just Curious)
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To: thomaswest
Take 1 cup of water

Must it be distilled water? This is science after all and we want to be precise to 24 decimal places.

100 posted on 12/28/2005 4:28:18 PM PST by Frank Sheed ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." ~GK Chesterton.)
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To: thomaswest; DallasMike; Cicero; keithtoo; manwiththehands; johnnyb_61820
"Please explain this via your interpretation of the 2nd Law and entropy."

Non-sequiter.

There is a systematic influnce at work in this: the differing densities of the liquids, and a gravitational field. Re-do the experiment in endless free-fall and comment on your findings. Due at close of class today.

103 posted on 12/28/2005 4:31:21 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Atheist and Fool are synonyms; Evolution is where fools hide from the sunrise)
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To: thomaswest
Order can arise spontaneously out of disorder: an example.

See post 24.

105 posted on 12/28/2005 4:36:54 PM PST by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: thomaswest

Those elements are not 'ordering' themselves, they are retreating to a state of equilibrium. Just a water droplet becoming an 'ordered' snowflake. It is adhering to its native form - per the ambient temperature - it is not achieving a higher level of complexity.


125 posted on 12/28/2005 5:04:01 PM PST by keithtoo (Leftists/Democrats - Traitors, Haters and Vacillators)
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To: thomaswest

See post #189.


190 posted on 12/28/2005 6:14:26 PM PST by manwiththehands (My Christmas wish: I wish Republicans were running the country.)
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To: thomaswest

"Please explain this via your interpretation of the 2nd Law and entropy."

That is so stupid...


194 posted on 12/28/2005 6:19:48 PM PST by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
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To: thomaswest

Let me know when the oil slides out of the glass, starts walking around and composes the Messiah.


311 posted on 12/28/2005 8:53:13 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: thomaswest

That's a specious argument for order from disorder.
In fact, it may be a better argument against evolution.

Entropy TENDS toward disorder. Wouldn't the mixture temporarily imposed by the shaking motion be more complex than the individual ingredients? Yet because nothing was imposed to keep the mixture in the new state, it reverted to the original ingredients.

Evolution has to OVERCOME entropy to organize increased complexity of higher species. Or, as I believe, the order of this elegant universe is created and imposed by a Creator.


1,144 posted on 12/31/2005 3:31:55 PM PST by GOPPachyderm
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