[bobdsmith]

In the cases of the Oak Tree and the Acorn, or the computer chips, you have a program which is directing/localizing the entropy losses and gains. Without the program, the entropy losses available are statistically small. It is the program that allows the large localized entropy losses.

Add to that list evolution and you will see why evolution does not contradict the 2nd law either.

[jbloedow]

Add to that list evolution and you will see why evolution does not contradict the 2nd law either.

Um, where's the "program" in the case of evolution?

Also, can you evos clarify something for me: if I, say, take some OJ and cranbery juice and pour both of them together in a glass and stir it for a while and stop and then I notice that the OJ and CJ are perfectly separated, that would also not be a violation of the second law, right, on a pure energy basis?

But would it be a violation of the laws of entropy? Is there only one kind of entropy? Is there a single well accepted definition?

One more question: can you give me any example of observed natural processes which result in arrangements of matter of both long-term higher potential energy and statistical complexity with no guiding program or blueprint?

[johnnyb_61820]

So evolution is a preprogrammed process? I think I've heard of that before. What's it called.... oh yeah -- ID.