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To: b_sharp

"...Since both of you seem to be well equipped to discuss the 2LoT and abiogenesis, could you explain how the 2LoT prevents the formation of biotic molecules from prebiotic molecules?"

b_sharp,
Sorry, but I'm not familiar with 2LoT and abgiogenesis. Perhaps you're pointing to an argument that provides me with the explanation that -- as a layman in this field -- I'm looking for.

Again, I claim no expertise. I'm just expressing a wish for some good, concise explanation from the evo side regarding the 2nd Law of Thermo.

Respectfully,
-- Joe


1,374 posted on 01/04/2006 6:18:09 PM PST by Joe Republc
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To: Joe Republc; b_sharp

I'm not sure if this was in any way directed in my direction, but if I may be permitted to answer from the other side, it is my experience that evolutionists are exceedingly reluctant to do any positive science in this regard unless they are dragged kicking and screaming.

Their only contributions seem to be preaching-to-the-choir half answers to creationist or other skeptic objections. As the non-evolutionist arguments get more sophisticated, occasionally they add a level of sophistication to their rebuttal.

Most of the time they just accuse creationists of misunderstanding the SLoT or confusing entropy with disorder, or blathering that SLoT only applies to closed systems.

I did happen to come across a recent paper -- darned if I can find it again -- by a scientist who actually developed a complex and _quantitative_ computer model of the information/entropy in a simple set of self-replicating proteins (forget the details) experiencing evolution. At the beginning of his paper he stated that THIS HAD NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE!!!!!! (Anyway, that's post-abiogenesis, so not quite relevant to your question.)

The talkorigins contribution to this topic seems to consist entirely of refuting some probabilistic calculations of abiogenesis based on the observation that these creationist attempts to evaluate abiogenesis quantitatively were stupid because .... there was really no viable theory of abiogenesis for them to evaluate. Quite the defence!!!


1,375 posted on 01/04/2006 7:58:15 PM PST by jbloedow
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