Posted on 12/28/2005 10:48:42 AM PST by infoguy
Good point. Church history around 855 is very well documented. Now, 855 AD seems like a long time ago to members of recently invented religions (re: all Protestant sects and Islam) but for Roman Catholics 855 AD was the heady days of the young adulthood of the Christian Church.
The identity all Popes is well known, well documented and not a subject of any mystery. Just as, the identity of the first Pope is absolutely clear.
LOL!!!!
LOL!!
Agreed. That's my point
The history of the Church that Christ created is very importatnt.
You love Jesus why do you hate his Church?
We know, factually, the Holocaust happened. We know, factually, that terrorists from Saudi Arabia flew two planes into the World Trade Center. We do not, however, know beyond a shadow of a doubt everything there is to know about Catholic history. Especially when this incident happened over 1000 years ago. It is possible the story is a myth. It is possible the story is true. When it comes to personal information about historical figures, especially those that lived during the Dark Ages, there is a possibility for error
I talked to a guy the other day who, had a friend in HS that he assumed was a girl. He just found out this past weekend, five years later, the girl was a BOY! Makes you think!
ChurchEaston's 1897 Bible DictionaryDerived probably from the Greek kuriakon (i.e., "the Lord's house"), which was used by ancient authors for the place of worship.
In the New Testament it is the translation of the Greek word ecclesia, which is synonymous with the Hebrew _kahal_ of the Old Testament, both words meaning simply an assembly, the character of which can only be known from the connection in which the word is found. There is no clear instance of its being used for a place of meeting or of worship, although in post-apostolic times it early received this meaning. Nor is this word ever used to denote the inhabitants of a country united in the same profession, as when we say the "Church of England," the "Church of Scotland," etc.
We find the word ecclesia used in the following senses in the New Testament: (1.) It is translated "assembly" in the ordinary classical sense (Acts 19:32, 39, 41).
(2.) It denotes the whole body of the redeemed, all those whom the Father has given to Christ, the invisible catholic church (Eph. 5:23, 25, 27, 29; Heb. 12:23).
(3.) A few Christians associated together in observing the ordinances of the gospel are an ecclesia (Rom. 16:5; Col. 4:15).
(4.) All the Christians in a particular city, whether they assembled together in one place or in several places for religious worship, were an ecclesia. Thus all the disciples in Antioch, forming several congregations, were one church (Acts 13:1); so also we read of the "church of God at Corinth" (1 Cor. 1:2), "the church at Jerusalem" (Acts 8:1), "the church of Ephesus" (Rev. 2:1), etc.
(5.) The whole body of professing Christians throughout the world (1 Cor. 15:9; Gal. 1:13; Matt. 16:18) are the church of Christ.
The church visible "consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion, together with their children." It is called "visible" because its members are known and its assemblies are public. Here there is a mixture of "wheat and chaff," of saints and sinners. "God has commanded his people to organize themselves into distinct visible ecclesiastical communities, with constitutions, laws, and officers, badges, ordinances, and discipline, for the great purpose of giving visibility to his kingdom, of making known the gospel of that kingdom, and of gathering in all its elect subjects. Each one of these distinct organized communities which is faithful to the great King is an integral part of the visible church, and all together constitute the catholic or universal visible church." A credible profession of the true religion constitutes a person a member of this church. This is "the kingdom of heaven," whose character and progress are set forth in the parables recorded in Matt. 13.
The children of all who thus profess the true religion are members of the visible church along with their parents. Children are included in every covenant God ever made with man. They go along with their parents (Gen. 9:9-17; 12:1-3; 17:7; Ex. 20:5; Deut. 29:10-13). Peter, on the day of Pentecost, at the beginning of the New Testament dispensation, announces the same great principle. "The promise [just as to Abraham and his seed the promises were made] is unto you, and to your children" (Acts 2:38, 39). The children of believing parents are "holy", i.e., are "saints", a title which designates the members of the Christian church (1 Cor. 7:14). (See BAPTISM �T0000435.)
The church invisible "consists of the whole number of the elect that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one under Christ, the head thereof." This is a pure society, the church in which Christ dwells. It is the body of Christ. it is called "invisible" because the greater part of those who constitute it are already in heaven or are yet unborn, and also because its members still on earth cannot certainly be distinguished. The qualifications of membership in it are internal and are hidden. It is unseen except by Him who "searches the heart." "The Lord knoweth them that are his" (2 Tim. 2:19).
The church to which the attributes, prerogatives, and promises appertaining to Christ's kingdom belong, is a spiritual body consisting of all true believers, i.e., the church invisible.
(1.) Its unity. God has ever had only one church on earth. We sometimes speak of the Old Testament Church and of the New Testament church, but they are one and the same. The Old Testament church was not to be changed but enlarged (Isa. 49:13-23; 60:1-14). When the Jews are at length restored, they will not enter a new church, but will be grafted again into "their own olive tree" (Rom. 11:18-24; comp. Eph. 2:11-22). The apostles did not set up a new organization. Under their ministry disciples were "added" to the "church" already existing (Acts 2:47).
(2.) Its universality. It is the "catholic" church; not confined to any particular country or outward organization, but comprehending all believers throughout the whole world.
(3.) Its perpetuity. It will continue through all ages to the end of the world. It can never be destroyed. It is an "everlasting kindgdom."
Christ did not 'create' the Catholic church. You could say His actions created the 'catholic'(universal) church. But the definition of church is not any particular organization but rather all believers. Christ is not Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, etc. Nor is He Catholic
Except for two reasons. The percentage of people that actually believe that is miniscule. Secondly, these happened in recent history and the facts are easily verifiable. Something that happened over a 1000 years ago, especially when it's based on nothing more than one group or another stated the fact is not as easily verifiable.
You are very welcome.
I did. And my comment about the Catholic hierarchy stands. There are 50 million - plus Catholics (officially) in USA. Even if only 10 million are churchgoing, if the bishops adopted a strategy to organize them against the media's anti-Christian bias, we'd see some results. Protestant churches could join on, but by themselves they're either too disorganized, hopelessly liberal (mainstream), or too easily caricatured and dismissed (the fundamentalists), to make a dent. The Catholics have muscle that they don't use. That's my point.
I can't see the anti-catholic angle either. I heard the Pope Joan rumor a while back. I've heard that some popes had pictures painted with their children when they shouldn't have had children. Maybe that's just a rumor too. I've heard that once there were 2 popes at the same time, maybe even 3. It was all resolved diplomatically. Maybe that's a rumor also.
The fact is that these rumors exist and have some basis. They may be true or false. Unless you're using faith, all history is hear-say anyway.
Making a show out of this material is sensationalism, not bigotry. Anyone who is offended by this needs to relax more.
By the way, by how many centuries does the following pre-date the Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, et al, churches?
"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid."
St. Ignatius of Antioch Letter to the Smyrneans 107 AD
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