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To: little jeremiah
Look at it this way - which is more government fascistic type intrusion - allowing municipalities and states and counties to make their own laws about whether they want legalized orgy clubs or not, or forcing said orgy clubs on everyone by judicial fiat? Hmmm?

Actually, states taking away the rights of citizens (who happen to be sinners per Biblical teachings) is the more intrusive of the two. Nobody forces you or anyone else to attend these clubs. But you along with many others would gladly use force to march these folks to jail by the simple fact that you have a majority and they are a tiny minority.

With that said, I have a some questions for you. Why do you demand that un-saved (or "lost" if you prefer) people live as if they are saved? Aren't Christians nothing but sinners saved by grace? Why would any Christian expect any un-saved person to live as if they were saved? Is it fair to expect that? Is Christianity's role in the world to see that sinners are jailed? Or is its role to pray for sinners, witness to them, and refrain from sinning themselves, all in an effort to lead sinners to Christ?

G-d certainly expects his followers to live by his teachings, but it seems to me that the Bible also teaches that the lost will live like the lost do, in sin. He wants all to follow his moral abosolutes, but he wants us to do so by choice, not by force.

Donning my flame retardant suit now. LOL

44 posted on 12/23/2005 8:43:51 AM PST by Unknown Pundit
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To: Unknown Pundit

You have a serious misunderstanding regarding my viewpoints. I am not a sectarianist, and do not hold the views you think I do. I will reply later, have to go to town shortly.


51 posted on 12/23/2005 9:25:39 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Unknown Pundit

First of all, I am not a member of any Christian sect or denomination, and I derive my spiritual knowledge from many scriptures of the world.

Second, the Founding Fathers (for one), and many other great moralists, sages and religious seers throughout history (actually, all of them) have understood and taught that there are certain basic moral guidelines which constitute civilized human behavior. These have been, and should remain, the standards upon which public conduct is based. They are moral absolutes. The 10 Commandments - especially the ones dictating social behavior - have been the standard upon which laws have been based for much of the last two thousand years.

The Founding Fathers understood this very well, and considered that government promotion or acceptance of egregious sexual immorality was entirely consistent with the Constitutional protections of individual liberty. IOW, the silly slogan "you can't legislate morality" has about as much intellectual weight as any Beavis and Butthead chortle. All laws are legislating morality of one kind or another; except now there are laws legislating immorality instead.

It's only in the last - say 40 years - since the moral relativists [sic] have been aggressively trying, with great success, to remove all traditional moral guides, that insanity such as this would even see the light of day.

And no one who disagrees with me ever, ever addresses any of the arguments I articulate. Ever. Sloganeering, sneering, name calling and the like are their only methods.


80 posted on 12/23/2005 9:05:50 PM PST by little jeremiah
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