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To: staytrue
You can acquaint students with ID in a non science class like theology, sociology, english, etc., BUT NOT IN SCIENCE CLASS BECAUSE IT IS NOT SCIENCE.

Are you perchance a scientist? Just wondering because I am, and I am not at all convinced of the veracity of your premise. Evaluating biological systems and organisms for indications of intelligent design requires voluminous knowledge of biochemistry, molecular biology, thermodynamics, kinetics, math, and statistics. On the other hand darwinian theory is relativeley simplistic: Gradual change via random mutation followed by natural selection. Now please explain how the Krebs Cycle (also known as the Citric Acid cycle) evolved according to darwinian theory? Bear in mind a functioning Krebs cycle must exist for a cell to survive.

58 posted on 12/22/2005 9:50:20 AM PST by Mogollon
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To: Mogollon
You miss the point.

Einstein thought it miraculous that the world was subject to rules and logical explanation, that science worked at all. There's nothing in science to contradict the idea of superior intelligence, creation by design...but neither is there evidence for it. No testable theories have been offered which can settle the issue. We're simply not there yet.

Meanwhile those who support ID are transparently trying to say that current religious dogma has scientific support. Ask the schools to teach paganism - the idea that at least some of the creators might be homosexual pederasts - and support will fall into the negatives.

61 posted on 12/22/2005 10:01:38 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: Mogollon
Evaluating biological systems and organisms for indications of intelligent design

State what you consider evidence for ID other than gradual evolution over trillions and trillions of organisms over billions and billions of years could not have produced the observable results in your opinion.

Proof of ID requires you watching a microscope and seeing the molecules move in non random ways to produce a new organism. Evidence for ID would involve observation of non random biological events that are contrary to current laws of physics. I have not seen any.

Evolution is not contradicted by current laws of physics.

65 posted on 12/22/2005 10:13:24 AM PST by staytrue (MOONBAT conservatives are those who would rather lose to a liberal than support a moderate)
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To: Mogollon
Now please explain how the Krebs Cycle (also known as the Citric Acid cycle) evolved according to darwinian theory? Bear in mind a functioning Krebs cycle must exist for a cell to survive.

Great question! Maybe with your cred as a scientist you will get some respectful thoughtful answers. However, I doubt it.

If this thread goes as others, someone will ask:

What kind of backwater scientific field are you in?
What kind of podunk college did you get your degree from?
What papers have you published on the topic?
Have you read everything there is on evolution?

I wish someone could concisely explain, without a stream of insults, or a huge list of time consuming, generic, red-herring references, how irreducibly complex systems can pop into existence, over and over again, in our world.

Or explain why we don't have evidence of evolution across thousands of years of recorded history, given the "rate of change" that would have to take place to create all this complexity over just a few billion years.

Standing by for a stream of insults...

66 posted on 12/22/2005 10:20:05 AM PST by SiGeek
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To: Mogollon
Now please explain how the Krebs Cycle (also known as the Citric Acid cycle) evolved according to darwinian theory?

Evolution of the enzymes of the citric acid cycle and the glyoxylate cycle of higher plants

The puzzle of the Krebs citric acid cycle: assembling the pieces of chemically feasible reactions, and opportunism in the design of metabolic pathways during evolution.

From bacteria to mitochondria: Aconitase yields surprises

102 posted on 12/22/2005 12:18:46 PM PST by dread78645 (Sorry Mr. Franklin, We couldn't keep it.)
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