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To: Marxbites
I will check out the links. I'm somewhat familiar with the Cato Institute, I was pretty much a Libertarian at one time. I've still got a pretty strong libertarian streak in me, but I come back to my opinion that there is a certain amount of human nature that they don't take into account (the communists make the same mistake, in a different direction). You make very good arguments, but my textbooks are just books in general, all the way from Solzenytzen to, oh...I dunno..., Zell Miller. Along with observations from just living life. I'm already aware that classic liberalism has been usurped by what is actually much closer to communism. I still stay there is a "pendulum" analogy between libertarianism and communism, with both sides missing the boat on human nature (of course, communism misses by a LOT further margin).

As I've gotten older, I think my viewpoint is closer to what used to be called a very conservative Democrat. In other words, it doesn't hurt to throw the average "working Joe" a bone now and then, it doesn't hurt to help poor people get a leg up, and sometimes a limited government can be the best way to accomplish these things. I'm pretty sure that you will disagree with me on that, and at one time I would have as well. That's okay, people change, opinions change. I come back to human nature, and the fact that ALL people will never be achievers, bad things do happen to good people sometimes, they WILL need help from someone. Unfortunately, history also shows that religious institutions, capitalism, and all of the other entities out there just won't step up to the plate to do the job. A prime example is slavery and the institutional racism that followed. It took government (truly following the Constitution), to step in and accomplish what capitalism wouldn't. Human nature at work again. I know that "promoting the general welfare" has been vastly abused by those in power, but the fact remains that the founders DID put that in the Constitution, and they probably knew there would be a lot of disagreement at some point as to it's limitations.

I'll be honest with you, I think that if everyone in this nation were a Christian, you could strip the government down to just defense and basic law enforcement, and I for one would be thrilled to live in a libertarian Utopia. Since that's not the case, I can see a role for government now and then to step in and do what it can to help people and alleviate suffering and unfairness.

Anyway, I've probably strayed away from the subject of unions, but I do agree that unions have outlived their usefulness to a great extent. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree about whether they were ever necessary or not. You seen to want to roll back the current "unholy alliance" of government and corporations, and I'm with you 100% on that! Best of luck to you.

51 posted on 12/23/2005 10:51:51 AM PST by badbass
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To: badbass
Make that: You seeM to want to roll back the current "unholy alliance" of government and corporations, and I'm with you 100% on that! Best of luck to you.
52 posted on 12/23/2005 12:11:15 PM PST by badbass
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