Posted on 12/21/2005 6:53:14 AM PST by truthandlife
A dispute involving the wife of Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen delayed holiday travel plans for a planeload of passengers, but few details were released Tuesday.
At least some people aboard the Continental Airlines flight were less than pleased after waiting about two hours at Bush Intercontinental Airport while the Osteens left the plane and their luggage was removed, said a woman who witnessed the incident.
"She was just abusive," said Sheila Steele, who said she was sitting behind Victoria Osteen. "She was just like one of those divas."
A church spokesman said the couple and their children left the plane voluntarily after the incident Monday and took another flight to Vail, Colo.
However, FBI Special Agent Luz Garcia said the Osteens were asked to leave the jetliner after an "altercation." She said Victoria Osteen "failed to comply" with instructions from the flight attendant. She added that no one was detained.
The incident occurred in the first class section on Flight 1602. Continental spokeswoman Julie King declined to give details.
The Osteens could not be reached for comment, and the Chronicle was unable to contact other passengers to corroborate Steele's version of events. However, the Vail Daily newspaper reported similar accounts of the incident from other first-class passengers.
Passenger Barbara Griffith told the Colorado paper that Joel Osteen was "very calm, very professional."
Lakewood Church spokesman Donald Iloff said Victoria Osteen contacted a flight attendant after noticing that a liquid had been spilled on her seat. The spill apparently was not cleaned up to her satisfaction, Iloff said. The family left the plane voluntarily and took another flight, Iloff said.
The airline issued a statement saying corporate policy forbids identifying passengers.
"There have been various accounts regarding events that occurred on one of our flights," the statement added. "We can confirm that there are no remaining issues between (Continental Airlines) and those passengers, and therefore, both parties feel no further comment is necessary."
Steele said Victoria Osteen was upset about liquid on her pull-down tray and asked a flight attendant to have it cleaned. When the attendant, who was carrying paperwork to the cockpit, told her she couldn't do it immediately, Osteen replied, "Fine, get me a stewardess who can," Steele said.
She said Victoria Osteen pushed a flight attendant and tried to get into the cockpit. Passengers quoted in the Colorado paper did not address those details.
Soon after, authorities were called to the plane, she said, although it was not clear Tuesday whether they were airline officials.
Garcia said Continental officials contacted the FBI about the incident. The agency decided not to investigate.
"It was quickly resolved between the airline and the Osteens," Garcia said.
Steele said she and other passengers were upset that they had to wait about two hours while the Osteens' baggage was removed from the plane.
Joel Osteen is a nationally known author of self-help books.
He became pastor of Lakewood Church in October 1999, building it into what some observers say is the largest church in the U.S.
Victoria Osteen also preaches and plays a significant role at the church.
The congregation in July moved into the 16,000-seat Compaq Center.
Me too. If he were not a married preacher, I'd swear he was gay. But I'll give him the benefit of that doubt.
>>Disagree totally.<<
Then you're disagreeing with scripture, and ignoring the commands of maintaining Biblical accountability among churches. Search the scriptures - my point is well backed, is yours?
>>We'll see in heaven who has the greater crowns.<<
So, to you, this is all about who gains the greatest crown?
Please, show me biblical commands of one brother ignoring the heresy of another. Christ himself set guidelines for church government and what to do when a fellow professed believer is living a life not in keeping with scripture.
>>Let's agree in Christian brotherhood that God can use as many techniques as He wants to spread His gospel.<<
I agree with that completely.
The debate between LS and I is what to do with the teachers who are not spreading the true gospel, but a gospel of cheap grace and easy-believism.
For him/her too. Of course.
Disagree totally. Little use discussing this further, as you have revealed yourself. No concern for reaching the lost, only for burning heretics. Clear where your concerns lie.
The disagreement is what is the commission of the church? To preach the gospel to the world, or to "out" heretics. I say the former, he says the latter.
This is my guess on what happened, having read several different articles: victoria osteen went to sit down and there was liquid of some sort in her seat. Stewardess hurriedly tries to clean up the mess but some remains. Victoria said she doesn't want to sit there, doesn't want to walk around Colorado with a big stain on the back of her dress. Stewardess repeats her command for Victoria to sit, Victoria says no. (failure to comply) Stewardess will not have her authority questioned and whines to pilot.
It's highly unlikely that Victoria Osteen went banging on the cockpit door.
Just my guess.
>>Disagree totally.<<
Still waiting for you to cite your reasoning from Scripture to back your claims that we should ignore false teachers.
We are to expose them and correct them in love.
>>Little use discussing this further, as you have revealed yourself.<<
Or, you could back up your position...either way.
>>No concern for reaching the lost, only for burning heretics. Clear where your concerns lie.<<
Wow! Did you hurt yourself jumping to such a long conclusion?
You're confusing Biblical accountability with condemnation. Please don't.
And you're confusing the Great Commission with executing God's judgement. More of the former, less of the latter. You haven't shown me in scripture where we are ever to put "outing" false prophets ahead of preaching the Gospel.
So then how do you counter the scriptures I posted earlier:
1 Thess 2:11-12; 1 Thess 5:21; 2 Tim 4:2; Eph 5; 1 John 4:1; The Bereans in Acts 17; and every single Biblical warning to avoid false teachers. You cannot determine false teachings unless you test their words and discern if they're preaching the truth.
"My son, preserve sound judgement and discernment; never let them out of your sight. They will be life to you, an ornament to grace your neck." Prov 3:21-22
"But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil." Heb 5:14
>>You haven't shown me in scripture where we are ever to put "outing" false prophets ahead of preaching the Gospel.<<
Please show me where I said one took precedence over the other. Don't put words into my posts that aren't there.
The article implied that the spill was on the tray which means she was the one who probably spilled it. The tray would not be up unless she was using it.
It's not uncommon for the tray to be deployed and some fat toad sits down in the seat before you, causing the tray to move.
It wil be interesting to hear her spin on the situation.
TankerKC wrote:
"HWJF = How Would Jesus Fly? (First Class, of course!)
WWJS = Where Would Jesus Ski? (Vail, apparently!)"
lol.... at least someone else has a sense of humor.
I like the person who responded to me to let me know first class passengers pay hundreds more. Thanks... I didn't know that. Oops, wait... I'm a platinum AA Advantage member and fly nearly every weekend for my work. I fly either business class or first. The people I work for pay for a coach fare (generally) and then I either get bumped or upgrade to business or first class (depending on the aircraft) with miles or out of pocket. I deal with a large amount of people and most of them are professional and never act as if they're "special" or "privileged" because they're in first class. On the contrary... they're USED to flying often and KNOW what to expect. You'd think that be the case here but since NONE of us were there it's all purely speculation anyway... I just find the story mildly humorous and would if it was another "newsworthy" person. Hissy fits on planes... lol
I just drove 1,750 miles for a four and a half day trip and I liked it just fine.
If I have to choose between the words of Jesus and the instructions of Paul, I choose the Lord.
That was John Hagee not Hagy btw.
Christianity needs more PREACHERS. Not feel-good self-helpers.
Spiritual economics suggest that effort given to one thing will detract from effort given to another. Merely the time you've spent arguing with me over "heretics" has taken time that we both should be giving to more important pursuits, so, I bid adieu.
"Obviously yet another contrived attempt to make Christians look bad.
91 posted on 12/21/2005 8:57:59 AM PST by Gone GF "
What?
Scene 1: camera one pans to first class cabin. Joel and Victoria Osteen enter and after Victoria places her Dolce and Gabbana bag in the overhead compartment she notices a wet spot on her seat... (cut to coach cabin.. camera two is behind flight attendants one and two looking forward towards first class where Joel and Victoria are) Flight attendant one is chatting with flight attendant two: "Look" says flight attendant one..."It's Christians Joel and Victoria Osteen!" "I know" says flight attendant two. "Lets make a contrived attempt to make Christians look bad!" Flight attendant one laughs and proceeds to ignore Victoria as she points out her wet seat and whether or not she should keep her Rolex on central standard time or change it to mountain standard.
Blah blah blah....
"contrived attempt"... funny.
>>How do you counter the Great Commission?<<
I don't intend to, not did any of my post's suggest such. Please don't suggest otherwise. You're being dishonest.
>>If any single instruction can be said to "supercede" all others (and all the others, if you will note, were not directly from Jesus but instructions---supposedly at God's will---from the Apostles), it is the Great Commission.
If I have to choose between the words of Jesus and the instructions of Paul, I choose the Lord.<<
So, some parts of the Bible are more important than others? So much for the totality of scripture's inerrancy and authority, huh?
So, in other words, you can't back up your stance that we're not to reprove or rebuke false teachers?
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," 2 Tim 3:16
Even in your use of the Great Commission, you seem to neglect verse 20 of Matthew 28: "...teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."
How can you teach them to observe Biblical commandments if you're not to make a judgement on what they already know? The Great Commission is, in and of itself, instruction, teaching, reproof, and stern correction to the lost.
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