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To: Mr. Rational
The countries of the European Union have a purchasing power parity of $11.65 trillion. This is slightly under the numbers of the world largest economy, the economy of the US with a GDP of $11.75 trillion. It is worth to think about these numbers if we talk about importance.

Austria is a small but really successfull part of the EU. Slightly smaller than Maine and (to European ratios) sparsley populated, it is a quite wealthy little country. Since I have already been in California and Austria (I was even in Graz) before, I probably would prefer Austra as a place to live in due to its beautiful mountains, my obsession for skiing and its really good political system (better than in California - this is for sure). Although I have to say that California has its amenities too. The views of Austrians are typical for most Europeans, although they are a bit more conservative in values (although they also had socialist gouvernments in the past - not now) due to the strong influence of the catholic church.

Countries like Austria have not needed to be responsible for their own protection, leading to the development of this culture of weakness.

This is completely wrong. Since Austria was always neutral (exept of being member in the EU) it never ever was under protection of the US. It never was a NATO member. They were free people being proud to be responsible of themselves. Of course they had a benefit of the static situation between the Warsaw pact and the NATO, but they were for sure not the reason for it.

Things are sometimes a littlebit different as they appear from the outside. I simply showed you this Arnie-Graz discussion to demonstrate the diffferences in thinking beween the European public and the American public. You should be careful with your devaluating condescending attitude towards smaller countries like Austria. You said that America is fighting for freedom. I also believe and hope that your country is in a struggle to bring freedom in this world. To do this, it needs friends and values that are respected by the rest of the world, since without those premises there would be no justification for this struggle.

BTW - Happy christmas! It is Christmas Eve here in Germany (although 7 o' clock in the morning).

287 posted on 12/23/2005 9:55:16 PM PST by Atlantic Bridge (O tempora! O mores!)
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To: Atlantic Bridge

Are you offering we trade Austria for Maine? I will take it! Austria is great. I will take the people too - we have states just as leftist as Austria. The point is a few Leftists in Graz are getting attention for making trouble for the Governor who has a much bigger, and much tougher, job. And yes- they do have an inflated view of their importance in the world if they feel they need to weigh in on the functions of CA. Do you see Americans in mid size cities weighing in on Austrian affairs? Not that it is a good thing - but most of our folks couldn't find Austria on a map.

As you note - Austria is not CA - and has few of its problems that come with CA opportunities. CA has a much different population than Austria ....

As for Austrian Neutrality - always is kind of a big word. It applies only to the time period I pointed out - last 50 years. Longest period for Austrian peace. The main difference between last 50 - 60 years and prior history is ascendency of US as Superpower and strategy to contain Soviets at East Europe border. Exactly where do you think the Soviets would have gone if the US decided our borders ended at the coast of Maine? Or if we did not stand up for Austria in negotitations with Russia at end of WWII? Do you think the Austrians themselves won those negotiations? Yes - quite neutral and free. That is how their peace was negotiated. Austria did not drop from the sky that way. (I'm not saying it was all US doing - of course not - but ..... do they think France was watching out for their interests?)

I would hope the Austrians might see some similarities between their history and the Iraqi's.

I'm not trying to live in the past. I would take Austria any day. I would love to live there. (I drive two Alfa Romeos, if that says anything). But they most certainly have been living under Pax Americana for 50 years. And I do think that has led to unintended consequences.

Merry Christmas and Frohliche Weinachten

And good luck defending US agaisnt Euro Leftists -


291 posted on 12/24/2005 1:23:23 AM PST by Mr. Rational (God gave me a brain and expects me to use it)
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