[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

So George Washington was not the president of a nation born in war over the God given rights of men?

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

Well, are you an assclown?

George Washington?

Heard of him?

[mysterio]

If they want to suspend civil liberties, there are two legal ways to do it:

1. A Constitutional Amendment

or

2. Declare martial law.

If it's just for wartime, why do they have a problem with letting the "patriot" act sunset? If it's just for wartime, then why not declare martial law?

I'll tell you why. Because it's NOT just for wartime. This is the wishlist of big government since Clinton. The Clinton justice department wanted these powers, too. And now, the next Clinton justice department will have them, should she be elected. I guess then we'll see how everyone feels about making this anti-Constitutional, big government boondoggle permanent.

Civil liberties make America America.

[Alkhin]

George Washington was president over a nation born in war over legal representation. Those rights had to be first be defined as God-given to spell out exactly who came first in the heirarchy of law. God FIRST, then national leader. As opposed to the Divine Right of the King, who was also presumed to represent the 'civil rights' of men but failed doing so because legal representation was severely limited. So you and I can go round and round all day about whether not civil rights was an issue in the Revolution. I find it fatuous to even comtemplate that terminology, considering that wasn't even in the play at the time of war. I do believe the Articles of Confederation came before the Bill of Rights.

It denigrates the Constitution to say its all about civil rights. The Constitution is THE LAW. Period, and should be enforced as such.

as for "civil rights" during war : there are hostiles, and their are civilians. The safety of the civilians comes before the hostiles. If someone plots and acts to hurt/damage/kill a civilian, they are HOSTILE, and shoudl be treated as such.