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Math, science not all kids should know
Capital Times ^
| 12-18-05
| Dave Zweifel
Posted on 12/18/2005 11:51:04 AM PST by SJackson
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To: SJackson
Market outcomes are for more efficient than anything that a political body can conjure up. The introduction of and the full embracement & support of educational vouchers would instantly revolutionize the system and more precisely deliver the skills and knowledge to the labor market.
41
posted on
12/18/2005 1:35:52 PM PST
by
LowCountryJoe
(The Far Right and the Far Left both disdain markets. If the Left ever finds God, the GOP is toast.)
To: EGPWS
Ever get the feeling that liberals' main motive is to drive sexual standards so low that they will get some?
To: thoughtomator
Ever get the feeling that liberals' main motive is to drive sexual standards so low that they will get some?Not before their latest elected President, but now I contemplate their motive.
43
posted on
12/18/2005 1:54:13 PM PST
by
EGPWS
To: kingu
"As for more science and math - how about a class on counting change. Ghads, I was ready to throttle the pimple faced drone at the fast food counter the other day."
There is no need to count change anymore. The computer tells them how much change to give. (/sarc) On the rare instances when I have someone count my change out for me, I now comment on it; a rare skill indeed, these days. Most of the people doing it are my age or older, now. I wonder if anyone even remembers when we stopped teaching it in school?
44
posted on
12/18/2005 2:10:01 PM PST
by
Old Student
(WRM, MSgt, USAF(Ret.))
To: StayAt HomeMother
#6 Music one year Drama next and Art the next
If Civics-Law-Literature-History are done right you'll get Latin, French, Spanish, Russian, German, and Italian. Ceasars Conquest is best in Latin and El Hombre de La Mancha in Spanish, though a childrens story Peter and the Wolf is better in Russian.
45
posted on
12/18/2005 2:21:00 PM PST
by
SandRat
(Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
To: Zuriel
This curriculum isn't for everyone, of course, but it has been transformative for many who have gone through it. According to the faculty, it is equally important for math lovers to take drama and for drama lovers to take math. Inevitably, I suppose, this curriculum will have a selection bias towards those with broad interests and capabilities. People who just want to do math or drama will presumably seek out schools that focus on that.
The ballet school that a friend's daughter attends has recently incorporated as a non-profit and has the goal of turning into an arts-focused charter school. Even in education, competition is now rampant.
46
posted on
12/18/2005 2:21:40 PM PST
by
AZLiberty
(America is the hope of all men who believe in the principle of freedom and justice. - A. Einstein)
To: Huntress
Even more frightening to one so easily intimidated is a parent that will not only back them up but can do it in History, Geography, Politics, Art, Literature, a Renaissance man with 20+ years of knowing how to take charge and command.
47
posted on
12/18/2005 2:23:31 PM PST
by
SandRat
(Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
To: GSlob
Thus the solution would be rigorous segregation of students by ability into parallel streams [say, traditional 5 groups - retardees, dullards, normals, brights and the gifted, IQ cutoffs 70, 90, 110 and 130]I'm old enough to have gone to high school when there was a track system. "A" track was for kids who were definitely college bound; they got advanced courses in everything. "B" track was for kids who probably would go to college - they got a solid education, but less rigorous than "A". "C" track was for kids who would probably go to work after school. They got plenty of office skills. Bookkeeping, office machines, and the like. "D" track was for those who were somewhat struggling - the girls got home management, cooking, sewing, etc., and the boys got mechanics, carpentry, etc. "E" track was for the kids (mostly boys) who were disruptive and one step out of the legal system.
It didn't have as much to do with IQ as it did with a work ethic. Some of the kids in the "E" track were much brighter than kids in the "A" track.
It also wasn't uncommon for kids to switch tracks (someone in the "A" track might decide they didn't want to work so hard and move to "B", or someone in "C" might decide to go to college after all, and move to "B")
The combination of ability and willingness to work kept the classes moving at an appropriate pace - very few were hopelessly lost, and very few were too bored to bother.
I'd love to see that system again.
To: SandRat
What? Nothing about religion?
"Every effort was made to encourage the children at the public schools to "think for themselves." When they should have been whipped and taught Greek paradigms, they were set arguing about birth control and nationalization. Their crude little opinions were treated with respect. Preachers in the school chapel week after week entrusted the future to their hands. It is hardly surprising that they were Bolshevik at 18 and bored at 20." -Evelyn Waugh
49
posted on
12/18/2005 2:40:10 PM PST
by
Dumb_Ox
(Hoc ad delectationem stultorum scriptus est)
To: speekinout
I'd concede that you have a point - up to a point, though. Once upon a time in my distant youth, in a different realm beyond the seas there was a special school with selective admission, which would probably be designated as "AA" in your setup. Children there were doing things like topology and 5-dimensional geometry while in tender 6th and 7th grades. That school was organized by university professors mostly for their own kids, but they had to open it to outsiders - and did so in the form of open competitive admission. I have VERY SERIOUS doubts that work ethics alone without at least "bright" IQ level would have sufficed there.
50
posted on
12/18/2005 2:40:44 PM PST
by
GSlob
To: Old Student
There is no need to count change anymore. The computer tells them how much change to give. (/sarc) On the rare instances when I have someone count my change out for me, I now comment on it; a rare skill indeed, these days. Most of the people doing it are my age or older, now. I wonder if anyone even remembers when we stopped teaching it in school?
Even when the computer tells them how much, they act brain dead. I had a meal the other day that came to $15.47. I handed them $20.47, they handed back the $.47 plus $4.53 in change.. I asked them why they didn't just give me a five and the woman shook her head saying, "No way, we heard about the change scam." (Yes, indeed, a little information can be a dangerous thing in the hands of an idiot.)
Thankfully, my daughter fully understands how to give change. I cheated though - I told her when she was young that if she came up with the total for the change faster than the register, she got to keep it. Blazing fast at that, no interest in any other math.
51
posted on
12/18/2005 2:45:51 PM PST
by
kingu
To: GSlob
I have VERY SERIOUS doubts that work ethics alone without at least "bright" IQ level would have sufficed there.Not all children of bright parents are bright or motivated themselves. It takes both. In the system I remember, kids who weren't able to keep up with the "A" track had to move to the "B". Some of them couldn't keep up because they weren't bright enough, and others because they were lazy.
To: kingu
"Even when the computer tells them how much, they act brain dead."
There was a reason I had a end-sarcasm tag after that comment on the computer. I have been noticing a trend in which kids who could think refuse to do so. I think they're trying to be Democrats. It's not every kid, by any means, but quite a few of them. Maybe it's a good thing I'll be teaching geography this coming semester. I can probably sneak up on them a little, and get them to try thinking. Maybe they'll find they like it. Pray for me, I'm gonna need it!
53
posted on
12/18/2005 3:30:00 PM PST
by
Old Student
(WRM, MSgt, USAF(Ret.))
To: SandRat
Not a bad curriculum -- but you need to add some more
In sciences, geology, astronomy, and a course in applied science (engineering, technology or just "how things work").
In social sciences, some psychology, theory and practice of management and the dynamics of group behavior, media and manipulation of behavior, introduction to microeconomics of the firm, and basics of financial systems (e.g. they should understand interest rates and what they do with time).
I'm reluctant to recommend calculus for high schoolers -- analytic geometry and some good instruction in probability and statistics would be more generally useful.
You need a language -- Chinese, Arabic, or Spanish should be preferred.
To: generally
One problem with current teaching theories is that learning must always be *fun*.That is one of the major problems in secondary education--one of many.
To: Old Student
They are going to hate your guts for it. Thinking HURTS!
56
posted on
12/18/2005 3:47:43 PM PST
by
GSlob
To: speekinout
"Not all children of bright parents are bright or motivated themselves. "
True. The latest estimates of IQ heritability are in the range of 70-80%. It is less than perfect 100%. Motivation is something the parents could [and should] instill, but no amount of motivation would ever suffice to make up for a serious lack of ability. Motivated ineptitude could carry a person only so far. I could turn myself inside out, and then back again, but I would never become an equal of Michelangelo, or even of a lesser luminary.
57
posted on
12/18/2005 3:56:38 PM PST
by
GSlob
To: SandRat
Literature the Classics - Poe, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Longfellow
Music appreciation - Bach, Beethoven, Tichofski, Handel, Mozart, The Big Band artists, Rock and Roll of the '50s and early '60s
or
dare I say irrelevant !
58
posted on
12/18/2005 4:05:25 PM PST
by
newfarm4000n
(God Bless America and God Bless Freedom)
To: kenth; CatoRenasci; Marie; PureSolace; Congressman Billybob; P.O.E.; cupcakes; Amelia; Dianna; ...
59
posted on
12/18/2005 4:08:03 PM PST
by
Born Conservative
(Chronic Positivity: http://www.livejournal.com/users/jsher/)
To: SJackson
We're homeschoolers. For political literacy I teach ancient Greek thought, and I teach it hard. :)
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