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Theater owners want cell phones blocked
UPI ^ | Dec. 17, 2005 | UPI

Posted on 12/18/2005 7:27:25 AM PST by Kjobs

SANTA MONICA, Calif., Dec. 17 (UPI) -- The National Association of Theater Owners wants the Federal Communications Commission to allow the blocking of cell phone signals in theaters.

John Fithian, the president of the trade organization, told the Los Angeles Times theater owners "have to block rude behavior" as the industry tries to come up with ways to bring people back to the cinemas.

Fithian said his group would petition the FCC for permission to block cell phone signals within movie theaters.

Some theaters already have no cell phone policies and ask moviegoers to check their phones at the door, Fithian said.

The Cellular Telecommunications and Internet Association -- a Washington-based cell phone lobby that is also known as CTIA-the Wireless Association -- said it would fight any move to block cell phone signals.

(Excerpt) Read more at upi.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: annoyingpeople; cellphones; emilypost; etiquette; grace; gracious; hollywood; manners; missmanners; pests; theater; theaters
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To: John D
I think this thread is directed at if a theater owner has the right to control the use of cell phone use in his own establishment

He does not own the airwaves. Therefore, he has no right over cell phone usage.

301 posted on 12/18/2005 1:42:01 PM PST by MrsEmmaPeel
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To: Shalom Israel

"So police cars parked inside the theater will be unable to radio their dispatchers? That is a problem."

(shakes head ruefully) I tried to explain it as best I could, but you don't have to understand what I was saying.


302 posted on 12/18/2005 1:42:25 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: MrsEmmaPeel
If I want to watch it in public I make allowances and don't complain.

Exactly the point of this thread, people AREN'T making allowances anymore and are voting with their feet.....that would be why movie theater attendance is down. If you like theaters full off rude cell phone users and screaming kids, more power to you, the point is many people DO NOT.

303 posted on 12/18/2005 1:46:17 PM PST by ScreamingFist ( The RKBA doesn't apply if I have a bigger gun than your bodyguard. NRA)
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To: ScreamingFist

"My posts on this thread are directed more towards ways to allow cell phone users and movie patrons a symbiotic relationship"

Oh, I'm just having fun with your statement. It's common sense and politeness that is lacking, and not just with cellphone use.

There is no technical solution for making people more polite. That's what the pro-jammer folks don't seem to get.


304 posted on 12/18/2005 1:51:22 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: Seamoth
If property owners have the absolute right to mess with the signals that come on their property, does that mean that it should be legal to pirate satellite TV service?

Your question is hard to answer without first addressing the hidden assumptions. Suppose as the initial point of departure that I decide to print a newsletter, and slip it into everyone's mailbox, but stamp the envelope with a disclaimer stating that you may not read it unless you pay me $50 per month. What would the legal status of that be? The marking on the envelope would be interpreted as a contract of adhesion, and courts would not support my right to demand $50 from individuals caught reading the newsletter. In this case, the courts would be deciding the matter correctly.

Suppose, though, that I decide to get those dirty freeloaders by encyphering my newsletter with a new alphabetic cipher each month, and then selling the key for $50 per shot. This might be a sensible approach; it limits freeloaders and improves my revenue. It raises a question, though: what if some people enjoy such puzzles, and decide to try and break the cipher each month? Since I've chosen to use alphabetic ciphers, it happens that any reasonably interested person could in fact crack the cipher without much trouble. Can I then sue those persons for $50? The answer is again no, for the same reason as above. A contract of adhesion forbidding them to crack my cipher will not be upheld in court.

Suppose finally that these enterprising folks decide to sell my monthly key for $30, thus undercutting my price. This is a trickier question, but the ultimate answer is that they may not do this. If I construct the case correctly, I can demonstrate that this is a copyright violation on par with re-selling my newsletter, which you are not permitted to do even after I give you a free copy.

What this should make clear is that RF is in practice no different. If I beam RF energy into your house, you can make any use of that energy you deem fit. You can use it to induce electricity in an antenna to run a micro-powered device. If it's in the clear, you can play it through your radio or TV. If it's encrypted, you can play it as white noise. If you have the know-how, you can decrypt and watch it. What you may not do is, for example, sell cracking boxes for others to listen to my broadcast.

BTW, this applies to cell phone conversations as well. A law stating that you may not listen to RF signals beamed through your home is not valid. The onus is on the provider to ensure privacy by whatever means are at their disposal. Since unbreakable crypto exists today, there's no earthly reason that privacy can't be ensured.

305 posted on 12/18/2005 1:54:28 PM PST by Shalom Israel (Well, I got better...)
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To: Shalom Israel; Seamoth
If property owners have the absolute right to mess with the signals that come on their property, does that mean that it should be legal to pirate satellite TV service?

In a nutshell, it is the unauthorized decrypting of satellite TV that is illegal, not the reception.

306 posted on 12/18/2005 1:57:30 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Tax-chick
I was suggesting (for example) a separate performance for the handicapped and/or children, if the performer wished to make the effort.

Discrimination!!! :-)

307 posted on 12/18/2005 2:01:23 PM PST by Howlin
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To: flada
It seems that you are the one who is confused--thinking that you own the air and the radio waves that are around your property. Next thing, you'll be telling us that you have the right to shoot down an airplane that flies through "your" airspace.

I never stated that I own any part of the RF spectrum, nor of the airspace over my home. In fact I already addressed that question in an earlier post.

The broadcaster who gets there first rightfully owns his segment of the spectrum, by virtue of having homesteaded it. Other broadcasters are free to homestead other segments of the spectrum, or the same frequencies in a different coverage area. Disputes are solved in court in the same manner that two homesteaders resolve a dispute over pastureland.

Similarly, the airspace over my home, or the minerals under my home, are not mine because I did not homestead them. The first private air-travel provider to use an air traffic lane owns it, by virtue of having homesteaded it. Other providers can use other lanes, or can arrange contractually to share the use of the first provider's lanes.

If those lanes pass over my house, there are certain rights that I have; for example, an airline has no right to buzz my house. If I was there first, and their air lanes result in sonic booms, then they need to fly higher and/or slower, or arrange for an easement from me--not because I have any rights in the airspace, but because they're polluting my space down on the ground.

Naturally, the US government doesn't take such a simple, moral perspective. The government's only method of addressing these allocation problems is to claim sovereinty over the entire spectrum, or the entire airspace, and then dole it out according to their political agenda.

308 posted on 12/18/2005 2:03:58 PM PST by Shalom Israel (Well, I got better...)
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To: Shalom Israel

"A law stating that you may not listen to RF signals beamed through your home is not valid"

Forgive me, but I have to make fun of you now: You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You may NOT decrypt signals that come into your home (by law) and you may NOT listen to or record conversations, such as cellphone conversations, cordless phone conversations. Just because you can doesn't mean it's legal. What if someone beamed child pornography into your home? Would it suddenly become legal to possess it because it didn't originate on your premises?

You are wrong - technically, legally, and morally on most everything you've commented on in this thread. I'd suggest you stop and concentrate on some other thread where you have something meaningful to contribute.


309 posted on 12/18/2005 2:05:25 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: Shalom Israel
Similarly, the airspace over my home, or the minerals under my home, are not mine because I did not homestead them.

I'm not sure this is correct concerning mineral rights. From my understanding, mineral rights belong to the property owner unless they have been sold off or "severed".

310 posted on 12/18/2005 2:08:25 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: JeffAtlanta
An officer or paramedic inside the theater would be cut off - that is a problem.

Good point. I often find myself sitting near on-duty cops and EMTs in the theater.

Do you think that police officers and paramedics remain in their cars when responding to an emergency inside a theater?

Shutting off jammers in emergency conditions is as simple as the flick of a switch. That's a fairly silly objection. Note, though, that police do have to enter buildings that, by their architecture, limit his radio contact.

311 posted on 12/18/2005 2:12:36 PM PST by Shalom Israel (Well, I got better...)
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To: MrsEmmaPeel
You're confusing me with some one else. I'm Live And let Live. If I wanted a private viewing of the movie, I'd buy the DvD.

Actually, I'm with you Mrs. Peel. I think smokers should be perfectly free to smoke during a movie.

312 posted on 12/18/2005 2:13:32 PM PST by Shalom Israel (Well, I got better...)
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To: Shalom Israel
Similarly, the airspace over my home, or the minerals under my home, are not mine because I did not homestead them. The first private air-travel provider to use an air traffic lane owns it, by virtue of having homesteaded it. Other providers can use other lanes, or can arrange contractually to share the use of the first provider's lanes.

This is correct in regard to air rights either. The property owner does own the air rights above the property - after the advent of the airplane, courts have made exceptions for high flying airplanes.

A property owner can sell off the air rights to the property. This is most often done in in areas with skyscrapers. Air rights have nothing to do with who got there first.

313 posted on 12/18/2005 2:13:44 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: RFEngineer
Forgive me, but I have to make fun of you now:

And I'm waiting for the RFEngineer to explain why a Faraday cage movie theater is perfectly legal.....without a single sign saying...."Hey Dufuss, your cell phone won't work in here"

314 posted on 12/18/2005 2:14:53 PM PST by ScreamingFist ( The RKBA doesn't apply if I have a bigger gun than your bodyguard. NRA)
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To: ScreamingFist
that would be why movie theater attendance is down.

I think attendance is down because most movies are crappy!

315 posted on 12/18/2005 2:15:05 PM PST by MrsEmmaPeel
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To: Shalom Israel
I often find myself sitting near on-duty cops and EMTs in the theater.

Many theaters have cops on patrol.

316 posted on 12/18/2005 2:15:19 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: JeffAtlanta
In a nutshell, it is the unauthorized decrypting of satellite TV that is illegal, not the reception.

Properly speaking, it's the sale of decryption technology that should be illegal. The DMCA is a moral abomination.

317 posted on 12/18/2005 2:15:49 PM PST by Shalom Israel (Well, I got better...)
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To: MrsEmmaPeel
I think attendance is down because most movies are crappy!

That's certainly part of the equation....

318 posted on 12/18/2005 2:17:02 PM PST by ScreamingFist ( The RKBA doesn't apply if I have a bigger gun than your bodyguard. NRA)
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To: JeffAtlanta
This is correct in regard to air rights either. The property owner does own the air rights above the property - after the advent of the airplane, courts have made exceptions for high flying airplanes.

I should have made it clear that I was expounding the morality of the issue, not the current state of US law. In the past, US law recognized the concept of property rights deriving from the act of homesteading, and even applied them to such things as the RF spectrum. That has long since changed.

319 posted on 12/18/2005 2:17:24 PM PST by Shalom Israel (Well, I got better...)
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To: ScreamingFist
And I'm waiting for the RFEngineer to explain why a Faraday cage movie theater is perfectly legal.....without a single sign saying...."Hey Dufuss, your cell phone won't work in here"

A faraday cage would certainly be legal, but a theater would probably face civil and possibly criminal liabilities if they did not make it very clear to the patrons that cell phone usage was purposely obstructed.

320 posted on 12/18/2005 2:17:43 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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