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Is string theory in trouble?
newscientist.com ^ | 17 December 2005 | Amanda Gefter

Posted on 12/18/2005 5:46:34 AM PST by samtheman

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To: samtheman

That is a cosmological battle - Big Crunch or Cold Empty Universe. In other words, will the Universe end in fire or ice (metaphorically speaking). Data suggests that (based on our current thinking), the universe will gradually drift away into nothingness.

Which reminds me of the Robert Frost poem:

Some say the world will end in ice,
some say it will end in fire,
And having tasted desire,
I hold with those who say fire.


21 posted on 12/18/2005 6:23:41 AM PST by razoroccam (Then in the name of Allah, they will let loose the Germs of War (http://www.booksurge.com))
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To: Condor51; atomicpossum
***I've been doing research for my doctoral on g-string theory. Now, if I can just find a school which offers that as a major...***

Have you checked the University of Phoenix, they seem to have a Major for everything.

Little Rock, AR has a vast amount of information on file with respect to everything related to this subject ... in the Clinton Library.

22 posted on 12/18/2005 6:23:53 AM PST by Optimist (I think I'm beginning to see a pattern here.)
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To: samtheman
Why are physicists taking the idea of multiple universes seriously now? ... Without any explanation of nature's fine-tunings we will be hard pressed to answer the ID critics.

Take out all the imaginary scientism between the two quotes and there you go! Not so hard after all.

By the way, the argument that we find the universe improbably friendly to life because we are alive in this universe is neither an explanation nor an argument, but merely begs the question. In these imaginary other universes, does conscious life exist in gasseous form in starless space? How about flying monkeys? In an infinite number of universes, surely there is one with flying monkeys! Cthulu? Wise and patriotic Democracts?
23 posted on 12/18/2005 6:33:00 AM PST by SalukiLawyer
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To: SalukiLawyer
In an infinite number of universes, surely there is one with flying monkeys!
I can't get my head around infinity. I prefer to speculate (and all of this is in the realm of speculation) on the possibility of a large but finite number of other bubbles and also prefer to think of us and our monkeys (flying or otherwise) as unique in all the cosmos. But that's just my particular fancy and means nothing.

What is interesting is that people who "know better" (that is, those who can do the math) are speculating along the lines of this article.

24 posted on 12/18/2005 6:53:48 AM PST by samtheman
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To: razoroccam
I like the argument on the subject of fire vs ice in Sailor Song.
25 posted on 12/18/2005 6:55:21 AM PST by samtheman
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To: SalukiLawyer
the argument that we find the universe improbably friendly to life because we are alive in this universe is neither an explanation nor an argument, but merely begs the question.
You are right. It's not an argument, or an explanation. It is a speculation. And to my mind, an interesting one. Frankly, more interesting than the supposition that a book written by the scholary members of a nomadic desert tribe a few thousand years ago actually specifies the dynamics of the universe.

To my mind (and I'm not trying to win an argument, merely justify my own speculations), it makes more sense to toy with ideas of alternate big-bangs (in which some get the physical constants "right for life" and others don't), than to believe that a book written at the dawn of mankinds erudition correctly lists the technical specifications of our cosmos.

26 posted on 12/18/2005 7:00:17 AM PST by samtheman
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To: samtheman
inflation implies: a huge universe with patches that are very different from one another. The bottom line is that we no longer have any good reason to believe that our tiny patch of universe is representative of the whole thing.

What would differ in those "anomolous" patches? Would they not conform to the same physical laws that govern this "patch?" Are we supposed to believe that Relativity extends to the very fabric of reality, and that Truth itself varies from locale to locale?

Would an intelligent observer from Tau Ceti IX see a universe governed by different laws, arising from completely different origins? Can we no longer rely on the assumption that certain values are immutable and universal?

Intriguing, but I suspect more of a parlor exercise than a physical reality.

27 posted on 12/18/2005 7:00:57 AM PST by IronJack
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To: bkepley; samtheman; atomicpossum; voletti
The idea is that scientists don't want a universe with a concrete beginning: it implies a creation event, and since nothing creates itself, it can imply a Creator, or another universe creating it, but then, what created that other universe (since nothing creates itself)--another Creator?

Steady State (or any pop theory amounting to such) is an elegant mathematical way to commit the logical fallacy of "begging the question" by not addressing: What was the First Cause?

Remember: Nothing creates itself.

Remember: There is no such thing as infinity.

Q.E.D., Kalam Cosmological Argument, q.v.

Sauron

28 posted on 12/18/2005 7:06:57 AM PST by sauron ("Truth is hate to those who hate Truth" --unknown)
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To: kinsman redeemer
Ping for when I'm smart.

That has to be the funniest ping I've seen!

29 posted on 12/18/2005 7:08:53 AM PST by sauron ("Truth is hate to those who hate Truth" --unknown)
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To: sauron
Sure. And it's really a fool's errand to try to understand the formation of the Universe without understanding what is outside the Universe.

It's like trying to reconcile where the interior of your house came from (if it's all you've ever known) if you have no understanding of anything outside your house.

30 posted on 12/18/2005 7:10:39 AM PST by atomicpossum (Replies should be as pedantic as possible. I love that so much.)
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To: atomicpossum

Post this picture with your
Research Assistant ad.

31 posted on 12/18/2005 7:11:35 AM PST by FreedomFarmer (Facts without theory is trivia. Theory without facts is socialism.)
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To: samtheman

Shall we go after the M-theory and trash the string theory?


32 posted on 12/18/2005 7:13:01 AM PST by Wiz
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To: samtheman
Is string theory in trouble?

I'm a frayed knot

33 posted on 12/18/2005 7:13:59 AM PST by joesnuffy (A camel once bit my sister-we knew just what to do- gather large rocks & squash her-Mullet Ho'mar)
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To: IronJack

Schrödinger's cat.


34 posted on 12/18/2005 7:15:46 AM PST by CPOSharky (Taxation WITH representation kinda sucks too.)
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To: samtheman
"The universe is big. Really, really big. No one knows just how big it really is."

- Opening lines of "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy".
35 posted on 12/18/2005 7:19:40 AM PST by finnigan2
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To: samtheman
"We still aren't certain that the universe collapses are we?"

Not certain, but things are looking bad for the Big Crunch. Our expansion rate appears (recent observations) too high,

I thought a couple of years ago scientists were puzzled by measurements that the expansion of the universe was speeding up, accelerating. This flew in the face of gravity which should decelerate the rate. I have not heard any contrary reports since. I'd settle for an answer on the driving force behind this acceleration as more useful than wondering if the universe is antropical.

36 posted on 12/18/2005 7:27:19 AM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (Some say what's good for others, the others make the goods; it's the meddlers against the peddlers)
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To: samtheman
But the belief that the universe beyond our causal horizon is homogeneous is just as speculative and just as susceptible to the Popperazzi.

Seems true. Nice turn of phrase, too. In my falsificationist persona, I suppose I am one of them.

37 posted on 12/18/2005 7:27:41 AM PST by aposiopetic
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To: CPOSharky
But does the act of observation change the results of the observation, per Shroedinger? Theoretically, if "reality" changed as we changed location, then the "new" reality would not even be observable to us. Or more precisely, since there would be nothing to contrast it with, the DIFFERENCE would not be noticeable. I can't imagine there's some physical threshold beyond which Reality A becomes Reality B, so the change would have to be gradual as A faded out and B emerged. What do physical laws become in the transition?

I don't know that this is a straightforward Shroedinger case, but it does pose some intriguing questions.

38 posted on 12/18/2005 7:29:53 AM PST by IronJack
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To: samtheman

A 'multiverse' in which every possibility happens blows Hell out of the experimental method, though.


39 posted on 12/18/2005 7:30:07 AM PST by Grut
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To: Grut

the experimental method still works for events inside our universe, which are the only events we can see or test anyway

like i said, this is speculation, but i personally find it interesting.


40 posted on 12/18/2005 7:42:49 AM PST by samtheman
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